# An SF novel "so bad no publisher could be found" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 2, 2003, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448 "2003-12-02T05:41:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/21 "2003-12-02T13:21:44Z")
What was it Larry Niven had in his ‘Laws of SF’? “Any SF book, no matter the quality, will sell a certain, minimum number of copies.” But it has it’s corrolary… “Unless your name is Heinlein you will not get rich writing science fiction.” ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/22 "2003-12-02T13:36:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > \*\*Just remember: Frank Herbert’s _ **Dune** _ was rejected by 17 consecutive publishers before Berkeley Books picked it up. \*\* Actually, it was originally published by Chilton Books, best know for publishing auto repair manuals. It’s the second most unlikely publisher to ever put out a bestselling novel (The Naval Institute Press, which published Tom Clancy’s first nove, is the least likely). As for the Eye of Argon, I read it years ago; it’s author, Jim Theiss, died recently. However, Darrell Schweitzer pointed out that, despite the purple prose and poor language, he managed to write a reasonably interesting story. Considering he was in his teens at the time, it’s not really all that terrible. I tend to believe that the story in the OP was apocryphical. Sure, there are bad SF stories and series out there, but I don’t know of any that were written bad on purpose. Maybe someone tried to write a cliched story, but a truly bad story isn’t going to get published. No matter how bad you think a published novel is, the ones they reject are much much worse (just take a look at the various electronic vanity presses, or the infamous [“Attack of the Rockoids”](http://www.rockoids.com/chapter.html) and [“The Pleistocene Redemption”](http://www.sff.net/people/doylemacdonald/r_tpr.htm). ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/23 "2003-12-02T13:40:10Z")
A science fiction novel so bad no publisher could be found? That part is easy. I have one myself… ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/24 "2003-12-02T13:58:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jonathan Chance \* > \*\*What was it Larry Niven had in his ‘Laws of SF’? > > “Any SF book, no matter the quality, will sell a certain, minimum number of copies.” > > But it has it’s corrolary… > > “Unless your name is Heinlein you will not get rich writing science fiction.” \*\* That should be amended to read: “or unless your name is Michael Crichton and repackage well-used SF concepts under the inappropriate category of ‘thriller.’” ---
**Author:** ![Deptford](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Deptford](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deptford)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/25 "2003-12-02T14:03:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hunter Hawk \* > \*\* If you’re into hackneyed SF, the first few books aren’t _too_ bad (disclaimer: this is based on my recollection of reading them back in high school)–I’ve certainly read worse writing. \*\* The first Gor book i read was Priest-Kings of Gor. Which is mostly about the Giant Praying Mantis type creatures who have a hi-tech underground society, and the heros interactions with them. Little or no dodgy stuff at all. I thought ‘Well that was alright, so i’ll try another one’. Whoah :eek: . As for doing down the Lensman books. Don’t make me bring my Delameter over there. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/26 "2003-12-02T14:09:28Z")
[Hijack]My favorite SF rumor is about the two authors who came up with a bet as to who could create the best science-fiction religion. Frank Herbert created the Bene Gesserit. L. Ron Hubbard won the bet. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/27 "2003-12-02T14:44:33Z")
Left Hand of Dorkness writes: \> [Hijack]My favorite SF rumor is about the two authors who \> came up with a bet as to who could create the best science- \> fiction religion. Frank Herbert created the Bene Gesserit. L. Ron \> Hubbard won the bet. This is clearly not true just for chronological reasons. Hubbard came up with Scientology in the early 1950’s. The Dune books came out in the mid-1960’s. Not only does no author fit the description given by Spider Robinson, but it’s not true that you can ask at any science fiction convention and people will tell you who the author is. I’ve been to more than 100 conventions over the past 26 years. I’ve never met anyone there who knew who the author is. Spider Robinson is simply making things up. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/28 "2003-12-02T15:57:36Z")
Hubbard, however, has been quoted as saying, “I’m going to form a religion and get rich. I’m tired of making a penny a word.” ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/29 "2003-12-02T16:05:40Z")
Dammit, **Wendell** , ruin a good story for me, whydontcha? 🙂 Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/30 "2003-12-02T16:34:06Z")
**tracer** : > [@](#): > > Just remember: Frank Herbert’s _ **Dune** _ was rejected by 17 consecutive publishers before Berkeley Books picked it up. Oh, they were _consecutive_, were they? Are you sure it wasn’t rejected by several, then accepted by one, then rejected by several more? ---
**Author:** ![Blackclaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e68b1a/32.png) [@Blackclaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackclaw)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/31 "2003-12-02T18:06:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Darkhold \* > \*\*You read a whole chapter of that? I couldn’t get past the first paragraph before my brain needed a good scrubbing. > > **DreadCthulhu** , > you think you’re clever don’t you? This is part of the terrible revenge for me knocking Lovecraft isn’t it? You _knew_ I was lurking in this thread and had to post that to lure me in. \*\* > [@](#): > > The weather beaten trail wound ahead into the dust racked climes of the baren land which dominates large portions of the Norgolian empire. Age worn hoof prints smothered by the sifting sands of time shone dully against the dust splattered crust of earth. The tireless sun cast its parching rays of incandescense from overhead, half way through its daily revolution. Small rodents scampered about, occupying themselves in the daily accomplishments of their dismal lives. Dust sprayed over three heaving mounts in blinding clouds, while they bore the burdonsome cargoes of their struggling overseers. > > “Prepare to embrace your creators in the stygian haunts of hell, barbarian”, gasped the first soldier. > > “Only after you have kissed the fleeting stead of death, wretch!” returned Grignr. ACK! Medic! _Blackclaw collapses into a twitching mass of flesh upon the worn floor of his dreary office building that was constructed just a decade ago during a nobler time when the sun shone with favor upon the spinning globe that is the Earth._ ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/32 "2003-12-02T19:04:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gamaliel \* > \*\*Were there any sequels to Null-A? > > Otherwise, I’d believe this was it. Sooooooo bad. Thankfully I remember little of this too. \*\* There were two; _Pawns of Null-A_ and _Null-A 3_. _Pawns_ came out a few years after _World_ while _3_ came out in the mid-eighties. I actually didn’t think the first two were that bad but _Null-A 3_ threatened to collapse into a black hole from the force of its suckiness. Still, this can’t be the series Spider was talking about since there were only three books. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/33 "2003-12-02T20:22:52Z")
> [@](#): > > As for doing down the Lensman books. > > Don’t make me bring my Delameter over there. Plural. As in, twin Delameters. And if that’s supposed to be what Doc Smith turned out when he was trying to write bad, then he’s got a lot more talent than I thought. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/34 "2003-12-02T20:42:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DreadCthulhu \* > The worst single piece of “science fiction” ever written was [The Eye of Argon.](http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~susan/sf/eyeargon.htm) Don’t read this link if you value your sanity. Really, it is that terrible. Eh, I’ve read enough bad fanfic to recognize this as more of the same. ---
**Author:** ![Badtz\_Maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e36b37/32.png) [@Badtz\_Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badtz_Maru)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/35 "2003-12-02T21:20:54Z")
> [@](#): > > Eegad. I’ve just read the first chapter, and I need to lie down. This thing was published? I managed to get to Chapter 7 1/2. It gets worse, much worse, as you get further into it. I HAVE to see the illustrations, as it’s obvious the story was written with a big box of crayons available as a reference (the 'love interest’s hair is repeatedly referred to as ‘orchid’). > [@](#): > > “Aye! The ways of our civilization are in many ways warped and distorted, but what is your calling,” she queried, bustily? ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/36 "2003-12-02T21:40:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Arden Ranger \* > \*\*The first however many of the GOR books were written by John Norman and I liked them. When he died, his son took over writing them and they are pretty WTF? I think John Jr. has some real issues with women because if you think the slaves in the first ones were treated badly, they had a life of luxery in Paradise compared to Junior’s GOR. \*\* I enjoyed the first 5, although could have done without the whole slave thing - but they got steadily worse and I finally stopped even trying to read them. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/37 "2003-12-02T22:30:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chronos \* > \*\*Plural. As in, twin Delameters. And if that’s supposed to be what Doc Smith turned out when he was trying to write bad, then he’s got a lot more talent than I thought. \*\* Okay, if the mavens are certain that E. E. “Doc” Smith is outside the timeframe for the anecdote, I’ll concede that I had formed a faulty assumption. Still, as regards literary quality, I’ll stand by what I said. I had more enjoyment as an eight-year old reading _The Bobbsey Twins, The Happy Hollisters, The Hardy Boys_ and _The Adventures of Tom Swift_, than I ever got from reading a _Lensman_ book as a grown man. Considering that they employed similar levels of of craftsmanship, that’s not too surprising, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Nichol\_storm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Nichol\_storm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nichol_storm)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/38 "2003-12-03T00:01:49Z")
> [@](#): > > ## \*Originally posted by Badtz Maru \* \*\*I managed to get to Chapter 7 1/2. It gets worse, much worse, as you get further into it. I HAVE to see the illustrations, as it’s obvious the story was written with a big box of crayons available as a reference (the 'love interest’s hair is repeatedly referred to as ‘orchid’). quote: > > ## “Aye! The ways of our civilization are in many ways warped and distorted, but what is your calling,” she queried, bustily? > > \*\* Ah, that’s nothing. My favorite part is when our barbarian hero bravely battles a villainous rodent: > [@](#): > > Grignr threw his hands up to shield his face, and flung himself backwards upon his buttocks. A fuzzy form bounded to his hairy chest, burying its talons in his flesh while gnashing toward his throat with its grinding white teeth;its sour, fetid breath scortching the sqirming barbarians dilating nostrils. Grignr grappled with the lashing flexor muscles of the repugnant body of a garganuan brownhided rat, striving to hold its razor teeth from his juicy jugular, as its beady grey organs of sight glazed into the flaring emeralds of its prey. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/39 "2003-12-03T00:49:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kaylasdad99 \* > \*\*I will probably be savag-- errr, ripped to shreds for this, but I always wondered if the titles were either _Doc Savage, Man of Bronze_, or _The Grey Lensman_ series. > > \*\* Doc Savage came from a magazine series, which started in 1933 and went to 1945 or so. I’d have to consult Phil Farmer’s book. I have the first 70 or so of the paperback reprints, and one of the original magazines. For something that came out monthly, they’re not bad, certainly a lot better than that other monthly series, Perry Rhodan. The Lensman series is a big upgrade from the Skylark series, the first of which was written in 1919. You can have sense of wonder or real characters or real dialog, choose one. I reread the Lensmen series not long ago - I liked them better as a teenager, but they’re not bad for their time. They’re better than the average mid-30s sf story. Captain Future was first published in another pulp. Hey, Hamilton did it for money. I can believe the story is a joke, but if it were real my money would be on Sword of Shannhara (sp?) I only stuggled through the first of them, but could well believe it was done as a challenge. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/40 "2003-12-03T01:45:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kaylasdad99 \* > **I will probably be savag-- errr, ripped to shreds for this, but I always wondered if the titles were _The Grey Lensman_ series.** **prepare to pay!!** “‘Qadgop the Mercotan slithered flatly around the after-bulge of the tranship. One claw dug into the meters-thick armor of pure neutronium, then another. Its terrible xmex-like snout locked on. Its zymolosely polydactile tongue crunched out, crashed down, rasped across. _Slurp!__Slurp! **kaylasdad99** ’s post-count would increase no more!_’” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448.md?page=3)