# An SF novel "so bad no publisher could be found" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 2, 2003, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448 "2003-12-02T05:41:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/41 "2003-12-03T05:52:59Z")
Stop the presses news! “The Eye of Argon” was actually published! Yes, according to the [November](http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/SF-Archives/Ansible/a196.html) monthly online version of Dave Langford’s award-winning zine _Ansible_: > [@](#): > > Darrell Schweitzer sent an update on a trans-Thoggian classic: `My colleague Lee Weinstein cracked the “mystery” of “The Eye of Argon” recently. The story was originally published in the fanzine OSFAN (the journal of the Ozark SF Society) #7, 1970. There is a copy of this priceless publication in the Paskow Collection at the library of Temple University in Philadelphia. Mr Weinstein has actually held this amazing artifact in his trembling hands. Guess there really is nothing that a fanzine won’t print. As for the OP, my comment after all these years is: Nuts. Let Spider name the name if there is one. I don’t know Canadian law, but in the U.S. one cannot libel the dead. ---
**Author:** ![Rainbowthief](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4bbf92/32.png) [@Rainbowthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rainbowthief)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/42 "2003-12-03T11:01:11Z")
Bad SF is, ugh, bad. I interned at a publishing company in college and one of my duties was sorting through the slush pile (unsolicited manuscripts). It was all crap, but the SF writers really went out there. Still, the biggest turd I ever read was a manuscript that the “author” described as “a sexy existentialist western”. I couldn’t believe a grown man wasted months of his life putting shit on over 300 sheets of paper. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/43 "2003-12-03T13:32:10Z")
And now, through the miracle of the Internet and POD publishing, everyone can read slush! It’s just called iUniverse or PublishAmerica or Xlibris or . . . 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Righteous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Dr.Righteous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Righteous)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/44 "2003-12-06T03:12:10Z")
I just asked my husband and he says he was at a con where someone asked Spider. The answer? Tarzan. I know, I don’t consider that SF either. ---
**Author:** ![pesch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pesch/32/4925_2.png) [@pesch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pesch)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/45 "2003-12-06T03:31:50Z")
I managed to actually read 20 of the Gor books. Yes, I _was_ 13 at the time. How did you know? My wife made me get rid of them when the children came along, a decision she regrets once she saw what they were going for on ebay. My favorite bad SF story came from Harlan Ellison, who was talking about about reading submissions for “Dangerous Visions” and came across a concept so revolting that it made even Harlan sick. For those of delicate sensibilities out there, I shall hide the concept behind the spoiler box: The story was about a snot vampire. That is, a vampire who fed on, um, his victim’s, that is (_hurp!_), his victim’s . . . (flees for the bathroom) ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/46 "2003-12-06T03:40:56Z")
If Spider Robinson actually said that and actually believed it, it only shows that he has no idea what he’s talking about. Here’s a history of Tarzan: [http://www.tarzan.org/history\_of\_tarzan\_part1.html](http://www.tarzan.org/history_of_tarzan_part1.html) Tarzan isn’t science fiction (but Robinson doesn’t call it science fiction in the quote), it’s actually fairly well written pulp, and Burroughs didn’t make a bet with a friend that he could sell anything. Such a bet wouldn’t have made any sense, since he wasn’t very far into his writing career and would never have jeopardized his career by deliberately writing badly. Furthermore, even if the story was true, what relevance would it have had to science fiction readers in 1976? _Tarzan_ came out in 1912. My respect for Spider Robinson just dropped a half a dozen notches. ---
**Author:** ![DreadCthulhu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DreadCthulhu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DreadCthulhu)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/47 "2003-12-06T04:26:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > \*\*Eh, I’ve read enough bad fanfic to recognize this as more of the same. \*\* Don’t make me sick an Oscar fic on you then. :shudders: ---
**Author:** ![Iteki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/eada6e/32.png) [@Iteki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iteki)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/48 "2003-12-06T11:17:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pesch \* > \*\*I managed to actually read 20 of the Gor books. > > Yes, I _was_ 13 at the time. How did you know? > > My wife made me get rid of them when the children came along, a decision she regrets once she saw what they were going for on ebay. > \*\* Huh? I have about 20 of these things at home in the attic (never read them tho, kept them for the covers 😛 ). ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/49 "2003-12-06T13:53:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lynn Bodoni \* > \*\*I’ve always heard it was A. E. van Vogt and _The World of Null-A_. That’s only what I’ve HEARD, I am making no claims as to the truth of it. \*\* Can’t be any of the ones listed. Robinson said “two dozen sequels”. Even if he was speaking loosely, there were only one or two SF/F series that **IN 1982** (or so…I don’t remember the original publication date of **Callahan’s** ) had 20-some sequels. Remember, in the actual quote, Robinson says he won’t name the author because he’s worried that the author’s _estate_ will come after him. So, we need to narrow the list even further: a series that, in the early '80s had 20+ books and where the author was dead. Gor, in 1982 was around book 12, Xanth was at about 7 and wasn’t horrible yet (it wasn’t _good_ or anything. but it wasn’t horrible), Burrough’s Tarzan _was_ at 24 (but IIRC Robinson expressed admiration for Burroughs in some interview or other). E.C. Tubb had a _long_ series back then, but was still alive Marion Zimmer Bradley’s Darkover stuff was approaching the 20s, but again she was alive and at the time her stuff was very respected ( **Heritage of Hastur** , **Forbidden Tower** ) The only thing I came up with the last time this came around was Edmund Hamilton’s CAPTAIN FUTURE series. 20 books, never reprinted (never a good sign), Hamilton was dead by the time **Callahan’s** was published. It fits all the points, but I dunno. Ah-ha. This _did_[come up before](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43184&perpage=50&highlight=Spider%20Robinson) I’d swear there was another discussion about this though, and (IIRC) someone who actually knew Robinson said that the story was a to illustrate a point. I’ve come to that conclusion myself. There really aren’t any books that fit the facts in evidence. Frankly, I’ve come to the conclusion that Robinson made up a story to illustrate a point. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Righteous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Dr.Righteous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Righteous)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/50 "2003-12-06T16:03:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wendell Wagner \* > \*\*If Spider Robinson actually said that and actually believed it, it only shows that he has no idea what he’s talking about. > \*\* Yeah, I know… I don’t get it either. Quite possibly he did make the whole thing up to make a point, and maybe he answers a different answer each time people ask. I wouldn’t put it past him at all. After all, when you ask him about the location of Callahan’s itself (you know, inspired by a real place he says is ow was located on 25A in Suffolk County on LI) he changes his answer. I grew up out there and if you try and figure out where it is based on what he’s said, its impossible. He intentionally gives out contradictory info about it … which is quite ok by me. Makes it fun to contemplate and “argue” about with others. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/51 "2003-12-06T17:04:38Z")
[hijack] In a similar vein, who were Niven and Pournelle referring to in _Inferno_? > [@](#): > > “_Him_. Why Him? A science-fiction writer who lied about being a science-fiction writer because he made more money that way. He wrote whole novels in baby talk, with sixth-grade drawings in them, and third-grade science, and he _knew_ better.” > > “…he did found at least two [religions], not there were any followers or that he even intended there to be. One of them had everyone telling comforting lies to everyone else. The other was the Church of God the Fairly Compentent.” [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/52 "2003-12-06T17:41:56Z")
That’s clearly Kurt Vonnegut that Niven and Pournelle are referring to. Saying that he “founded” two religions is a pretty strange way to describe what he was doing. He had imaginary religions in some of his novels, not because he remotely believed in them, but because he wanted to make a point about what people could believe. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/53 "2003-12-06T18:08:51Z")
Gee, Niven and Pournelle jealous of someone who could write rings around them. Who’d’a thunk? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/54 "2003-12-07T00:29:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Exapno Mapcase \* > \*\*Gee, Niven and Pournelle jealous of someone who could write rings around them. Who’d’a thunk? \*\* Well, you have to admit _Breakfast of Champions_ pretty much stunk. I like his writing much better after he got away from science fiction anyway. But yes, as a writer, Niven and Pournelle are not in his league. Even though Niven puts out a darn good story once in a while. ---
**Author:** ![TheOnlySaneOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/67e7ee/32.png) [@TheOnlySaneOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheOnlySaneOne)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/55 "2003-12-07T04:18:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Short Guy \* > \*\*Eegad. I’ve just read the first chapter, and I need to lie down. This thing was _published_? \*\* I’m impressed you got through the first chapter, too. Not that I could. I nearly started crying from pain at the first line of dialogue. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/56 "2003-12-07T04:44:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by This Year’s Model \* > **Well, you have to admit _Breakfast of Champions_ pretty much stunk.** Da NOIVE of some people. It is YOU, sir, who deserves to be Mercotan-ized and take it from me, brother, that STINGS, for disrespecting the poetry that was _Breakfast of Champions_. Perhaps you were thinking of the movie. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448.md?page=2)