# Analysis of "The Raven": Did Lenore die? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 15, 2008, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/analysis-of-the-raven-did-lenore-die/477233 "2008-12-15T12:18:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/analysis-of-the-raven-did-lenore-die/477233/21 "2008-12-15T18:29:16Z")
It’s obviously outside the scope of the poem, but Poe also wrote another poem, titled “Lenore”, in which the woman in question is absolutely, positively dead. [http://www.online-literature.com/poe/574/](http://www.online-literature.com/poe/574/) ---
**Author:** ![Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dread_pirate_jimbo/32/3897_2.png) [@Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dread_Pirate_Jimbo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/analysis-of-the-raven-did-lenore-die/477233/22 "2008-12-15T18:44:05Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Poe’s wife, [Virginia Clemm,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Eliza_Clemm_Poe) died at 24 of tuberculosis. The theme of a beautiful, frail, pallid woman dying of a romantically wasting disease pops up again and again in his poetry and fiction. See “The Fall of the House of Usher” and “Annabelle Lee.” It should be noted that Poe wrote “The Raven” while Virginia was near death. Given his situation and his state of mind, he may have been writing this requiem for a dead love, but still not quite willing to use the word “dead,” preferring to hold onto merely “lost” for the time being. Certainly, the experience of watching her waste away and eventually die informed many of his works. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/analysis-of-the-raven-did-lenore-die/477233/23 "2008-12-15T19:33:18Z")
So…have we concluded that she’s dead or not? ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/analysis-of-the-raven-did-lenore-die/477233/24 "2008-12-15T19:44:24Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > So…have we concluded that she’s dead or not? Dunno, figure we oughta open the box and see? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![RiverRunner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/977dab/32.png) [@RiverRunner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RiverRunner)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/analysis-of-the-raven-did-lenore-die/477233/25 "2008-12-15T19:53:33Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > So…have we concluded that she’s dead or not? Yep. **Rube E. Tuesday** pretty well placed the final nail in the coffin in post #6. RR ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/analysis-of-the-raven-did-lenore-die/477233/26 "2008-12-15T19:55:04Z")
Ravens, like parrots, [actually can mimic human speech,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Raven#Vocalization) BTW. ---
**Author:** ![emmaliminal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emmaliminal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emmaliminal)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/analysis-of-the-raven-did-lenore-die/477233/27 "2008-12-15T20:01:45Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Ravens, like parrots, [actually can mimic human speech,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Raven#Vocalization) BTW. What about ex-ravens? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/analysis-of-the-raven-did-lenore-die/477233/28 "2008-12-15T20:25:06Z")
Lovely plumage. ---
**Author:** ![emmaliminal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emmaliminal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emmaliminal)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/analysis-of-the-raven-did-lenore-die/477233/29 "2008-12-15T20:32:58Z")
Pinin’ for the moors? ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/analysis-of-the-raven-did-lenore-die/477233/30 "2008-12-15T20:39:07Z")
> [@emilyforce](#): > > What about ex-ravens? They shoot eyebeams and heal instantly. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/analysis-of-the-raven-did-lenore-die/477233/31 "2008-12-15T20:40:20Z")
If it hadn’t been nailed to the bust it would have been pushin’ up daisies. ---
**Author:** ![emmaliminal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emmaliminal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emmaliminal)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/analysis-of-the-raven-did-lenore-die/477233/32 "2008-12-15T20:45:14Z")
Its total lack of movement is due to it bein’ tired and shagged out following a prolonged Gothic poem. ---
**Author:** ![Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dread_pirate_jimbo/32/3897_2.png) [@Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dread_Pirate_Jimbo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/analysis-of-the-raven-did-lenore-die/477233/33 "2008-12-15T20:55:04Z")
It’s rung up the curtain and joined the choir invisible. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/analysis-of-the-raven-did-lenore-die/477233/34 "2008-12-15T21:04:52Z")
To give that nail one final whack, I quote a passage later in Poe’s essay where he summarizes the beginning of the poem. > [@](#): > > A raven, having learned by rote the single word “Nevermore,” and having escaped from the custody of its owner, is driven at midnight, through the violence of a storm, to seek admission at a window from which a light still gleams—the chamber-window of a student, occupied half in poring over a volume, half in dreaming of **a beloved mistress deceased**. So she’s not only merely dead, she’s really most sincerely dead. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/analysis-of-the-raven-did-lenore-die/477233/35 "2008-12-15T21:10:05Z")
> [@emilyforce](#): > > What about ex-ravens? They, at least in their ability to mimic human speech, are [remarkably like a writing-desk.](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1173/why-is-a-raven-like-a-writing-desk) ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/analysis-of-the-raven-did-lenore-die/477233/36 "2008-12-16T01:34:28Z")
I wondered about that name “Lenore” quite a bit, because it seemed to come up often, and with an expectation that we would know who or what she was. Imagine my surprise to learn that “Lenore” was a ballad about a vampire/ghost of that name: > **[Lenore | work by Bürger](https://www.britannica.com/topic/Lenore-by-Burger)** > > Other articles where Lenore is discussed: Gottfried August Bürger: …Bürger published the ballad “Lenore,” a spectral romance in which a ghostly rider, posing as Lenore’s dead lover, carries her away on a macabre night ride through an eerie landscape... > **[kudzumonthly.com](http://ww38.kudzumonthly.com/kudzu/oct02/Lenore.html)** > > This domain may be for sale! I suspect Poe knew about this, or at least about the weird aspects of the name, when he chose to use it here and in other works of his. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/analysis-of-the-raven-did-lenore-die/477233/37 "2008-12-16T02:18:22Z")
Actually in Poe’s ill-received sequel, “Raven II: The Phantom Pallas,” it turned out that Lenore faked her own death and escaped to San Francisco, where she solved mysteries with the aid of her faithful sidekick, an orangutan named Rhadamanthus. ---
**Author:** ![Mirror\_Image\_egamI\_rorriM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e56c9b/32.png) [@Mirror\_Image\_egamI\_rorriM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mirror_Image_egamI_rorriM)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/analysis-of-the-raven-did-lenore-die/477233/38 "2008-12-16T03:04:26Z")
At some point in my education, it was theorized that not only was Lenore dead, but the “quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore” was actually a book of necromancy, and the narrator was fixin’ to resurrect his beloved. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/analysis-of-the-raven-did-lenore-die/477233/39 "2008-12-16T03:06:07Z")
> [@Mirror\_Image\_egamI\_rorriM](#): > > At some point in my education, it was theorized that not only was Lenore dead, but the “quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore” was actually a book of necromancy, and the narrator was fixin’ to resurrect his beloved. This is what was taught in my Poe class. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/analysis-of-the-raven-did-lenore-die/477233/40 "2008-12-16T09:12:41Z")
Okay, it says **lost** Lenore. The only possible explanation is that Poe and Lenore were walking out in the woods, taking the same crap Alice took, suddenly they saw some freaky shit (“dreaming dreams no mortals ever dared to dream before”), like Angels who kept calling out to Lenore (“whom the angels named Lenore”). This scared them and they got separated. Eventually, he came across the Mad Hatter and March Hare and was asked “Why is a Raven like a writing desk?” He thought the question was interesting and went home to figure it out, unfortunately once the drugs wore off he only remembered something about darkness, angels, Lenore, and ravens and riffed off that. She’s fine. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/analysis-of-the-raven-did-lenore-die/477233.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/analysis-of-the-raven-did-lenore-die/477233.md?page=3)