Anarchy: What's the deal?

[DanBlather]

@ivan_astikov

As if it is the most surprising suggestion you have ever heard! :rolleyes:

Are you convinced we absolutely need a “gathering of world leaders” in this day and age? Would a great military general put himself in the trenches with the grunts?

???

[ivan_astikov]

@DanBlather

???

Let’s see if anyone else has any difficulties with interpreting my post, before I spell it out for you.

[Muffin]

??

[Lemur866]

I don’t get it either, Ivan. So maybe you should spell it out.

[MrDibble]

@Muffin

Given the choice of meeting the survival needs of one’s spouse and children, and meeting the survival needs of a family at the other side of the world, it is human nature to save your own family. I doubt if anything will ever change that fundamental element of human nature.

I don’t doubt that family bonds could be broken or unsocialized as easily as they are incalcated, given enough impetus. Not something I’d want, but anyway… I think you make the leap from this to linking it to property too quickly. I can easily think of societies that have strong family bonds yet not the idea of private property. Granted, they’re all primitive societies, but still - they are human.

In short, as long as there is a shortage of resources, there will be property

Well, there you go, then, as I’ve argued in other recent threads, a post-scarcity future is possible.

Anarchism is just another mechanism for controlling property.

By eliminating it - this is like the “atheism is just another religion” schtick.

[ivan_astikov]

Originally Posted by ivan astikov
As if it is the most surprising suggestion you have ever heard!

Are you convinced we absolutely need a “gathering of world leaders” in this day and age? Would a great military general put himself in the trenches with the grunts?

The first line was a response to DB, asking if the idea of police infiltrating protesters was the most unlikely thing he had ever heard.

With me so far?

The second sentence was a suggestion that these particular anarchists at the G20 meetings would have one less place to vent if world leaders didn’t have these big fancy get-togethers.

The third was a dig at the idea of how other organisations delegate responsibilities, while politicians love throwing themselves into the frontline… of all expenses paid trips and lavish banquetting opportunities…

[kayaker]

^Not worth the wait.

[RetroVertigo]

@kayaker

[ul]

[li]Do any communities exist today that are anarchical(sp?)?[/li]
[/ul]

The documentary Off the Grid: Life on the Mesa deals with a loose knit community of “anarchist” living in the American Southwest (I think New Mexico, but can’t say for sure). It was interesting to see how they interacted with each other, especially when crimes against the community are committed by outsiders.

[Muffin]

Oh, I get it, both politicians and generals are trenchermen, and anarchist protesters grunt a lot.

[Muffin]

As far as anarcho-syndicalism goes, Monty Python sums it up nicely: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAaWvVFERVA

[Muffin]

@RetroVertigo

The documentary Off the Grid: Life on the Mesa deals with a loose knit community of “anarchist” living in the American Southwest (I think New Mexico, but can’t say for sure). It was interesting to see how they interacted with each other, especially when crimes against the community are committed by outsiders.

Not as concise as Monty Python, but a lot more scary. I really can’t see myself wanting to live such a miserable existence. http://www.snagfilms.com/films/title/off_the_grid_life_on_the_mesa/ (Of course there are commercal interruptions.)

[DanBlather]

@ivan_astikov

The third was a dig at the idea of how other organisations delegate responsibilities, while politicians love throwing themselves into the frontline… of all expenses paid trips and lavish banquetting opportunities…

Seriously? Have you never worked for a corporation? The mucky mucks are flying all over the place, staying at expensive places, and having lavish meals.

And do you think it’s strange that elected officials from different governments want to meet together? Not sure if you know this, but US elected officials also like to gather together from time to time (hint, it happens somewhere south of Baltimore and north of Alexandria).

I think it’s really funny that people who think we can get along with a government can’t even gather a few hundred people together for a few days without it turning into, I don’t know, let’s call it anarchy.

[smiling_bandit]

@AHunter3

sb, I’m not quite certain how to put this, but you’re taking whatever you read and labeling it “wrong”.

I quoted the wrong passage. :smack:

[BrainGlutton]

@ivan_astikov

The third was a dig at the idea of how other organisations delegate responsibilities, while politicians love throwing themselves into the frontline… of all expenses paid trips and lavish banquetting opportunities…

Isn’t the front line exactly where we should want our politicians?

[ivan_astikov]

The front line of a war zone, ya mean?

This (G20 Protests Show Preferential Treatment of Right Wing Protesters) might serve to show those pesky anarchists in a better light.

[DanBlather]

@ivan_astikov

The front line of a war zone, ya mean?

This (G20 Protests Show Preferential Treatment of Right Wing Protesters) might serve to show those pesky anarchists in a better light.

Gotta love a cite from a news source that begins:

The authorities who protect the establishment’s power have demonstrated something in the last couple weeks

[Snowboarder_Bo]

Dan, can you show that the phrase you quoted is untrue?

[Muffin]

Again, two wrongs don’t make a right. Police should not act precipitiously, and anarchists should stop being violent. As it stands, both are using the other as an excuse to act inappropriately.

[DanBlather]

@Snowboarder_Bo

Dan, can you show that the phrase you quoted is untrue?

The burden would be on the person who wrote it. But whether it is true or not, the phrasing shows so much bias that it fails to serve as an effective cite for anyone who doesn’t already believe as you do. For example, I could say that “cowardly, mis-informed, and childish protesters who advocate overthrowing the governmental system, utterly alieniated the very working class people that they hope to liberate from tyranny”. Anyone reading that would reasonably infer that I don’t like anarchists and question any factual claims that follow.

But like the protestors who cover their faces in shame, and the writer of the article, I don’t think you’ll grasp the idea that how you speak and act is as important as the ideas that you propose when you try and influence others.

[Muffin]

Some people like to go to protests and rallies because they have an opinion that they wish to voice. Some people like to go to protests and rallies because they like to throw rocks at police and damage property. Some of the former would prefer if the latter would find another hobby.

Too bad for the anarchists that their public persona is defined by violent anarchists. Too bad for the rest of us social activists that we have to suffer anarchist klingons turing up at our protests and rallies.