# Anarchy: worst thing ever **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 29, 2001, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anarchy-worst-thing-ever/78680 "2001-08-29T11:21:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2001, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anarchy-worst-thing-ever/78680/61 "2001-09-05T03:05:26Z")
Anarchy is not about “no rules” or “no order”, and certainly not about “do whatever you want, anything goes”. It is about the absence of any social structure that places anyone in a position of authority over any others. Traditional “archistic” social forms are not here because “we need a boss” or “power-hungry competitive creatures that we are, everything is about dominate or be dominated”, or even “people aren’t good enough to behave properly without a police force to stop them if they don’t”. They are here because of the need for ORDER. Order means predictability, discernable pattern, the existence of pathways from desire to intention to implementation of plan. Order means you can mine metals and melt them into train parts and assemble them into trains and, yes, get the trains to run on time. A successful plan for obtaining an anarchy in a finite (even revolutionarily short) period of time does not have to be an unabridged blueprint detailing every aspect of how a bunch of people mine metals, make train parts, and get their trains to run on time without anyone being the boss of anyone else. What it does have to be is a blueprint for a system that would work reasonably well as a starting point for organizing communication and setting up a decision-making system capable of creating a body of decisions and a mechanism for making more (or unmaking some, for that matter) without anyone having authority over anyone else, PLUS (if this isn’t already implicit in what I just said) enough flexibility in its own structure to allow the best ideas from the participants to modify and improve upon it, addressing the needs as they come up. Yeah, I can do that much. I’m sure there’s room for improvement, but it’s good enough to use as a starting point. I would like to start with people who are dedicated to the idea that they want to live in an anarchy, so that the early insufficiencies do not readily lead to modifications that would make the system a non-anarchy in response to problems as they arise. Actually, I bet you folks could come up with a system that would work well as a starting point. Treat it like a brain-teaser. Quit worrying so much about human nature and think in terms of opportunity-facilitation. We will not abandon police officers, state governments, or corporate executive officers until something comes along that makes them irrelevant and obsolete, so instead of concentrating on how we get rid of (and survive without) them, look at ways of handing to people whatever advantages and possibilities might come their way as a result of anarchic social participation. Presence of anarchy rather than absence of dictators and totalitarians and whatnot. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2001, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anarchy-worst-thing-ever/78680/62 "2001-09-05T04:14:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ssj\_man2k \* > \*\*I don’t get all these kids these days (im only 16 myself) who are all into anarchy. It sounds cool at first, just the word and the symbol they use, but once you really think about it, it makes no sense. > \*\* This is summed up succinctly in SLC Punk (movie) the main character is a devout anarchist. He talks about fighting. (paraphrased) “I shouldn’t get into fights, because if you are getting into a fight you are saying that my position is superior to your position and you are then forcing your beliefs on someone else, that is a system. When you start a system, you have rules, and you are forcing someone else to follow your rules. I do not believe in rules, but then again, I like to fight.” Erek ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2001, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anarchy-worst-thing-ever/78680/63 "2001-09-05T04:19:30Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by erislover \* \*\* > [@](#): > > **bdgr** , 100 points for discussing Jello Biafra. There aren’t near enough people who even know who he is. ☹ Kudos on everything else, as well, I could have never said anything that compact to the same effect. 🙂 \*\* I resisted saying this when Jello was brought up in an anarchy thread. But now that it was given props as a good reference I just cannot resist. Has anyone ever asked Jello what kind of anarchist ideal screwing the rest of his bandmates out of tons of money espouses? I mean, from any point of view, Jello the anarchist, Jello the Communist, Jello the ACLU spokesman, it just doesn’t jive. I love the Dead Kennedy’s and I believe a good point is a good point no matter who says it, but damn that man’s a hypocrite to the highest level. I still regret missing him speak at NYU however. Erek ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2001, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anarchy-worst-thing-ever/78680/64 "2001-09-05T04:21:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AHunter3 \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > There would probably be militia groups who would extort people who were weaker > > If you had that, you would, by definition, fail to have an anarchy. > > Any SYSTEMATIC, ORGANIZED use of coercion or violence is an “archy”. \*\* Exactly it’s, an archy. Erek ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2001, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anarchy-worst-thing-ever/78680/65 "2001-09-05T04:55:12Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by erislover \* \*\* > [@](#): > > No God, gods, Goddess, or goddesses which rely on fear and supernatural force to get humans to act a certain way is any more an anarchist than a roving band of thieves. \*\* So if someone invents a government and calls it MsWasarchy I have to take responsibility for it? Erek ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2001, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anarchy-worst-thing-ever/78680/66 "2001-09-05T13:15:33Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by mswas \* \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by erislover \* > I resisted saying this when Jello was brought up in an anarchy thread. But now that it was given props as a good reference I just cannot resist. Has anyone ever asked Jello what kind of anarchist ideal screwing the rest of his bandmates out of tons of money espouses? Being a huge DK fan I think both parties are being prickish about it. I am currently unaware of the details of the case as I quit following it a few years ago. As of this time I don’t know whether he screwed anyone out of money or if the rest of the members are just whiny because they want more money from the cash cow they created. I tend to suspect a little of each, to be fair, but if I had to choose who had the real problem it wouldn’t be Jello. You are welcome to link me to better information, however. Jello isn’t your typical anarchist. To quote from “Where do you draw the line?” on Bedtime for Democracy > [@](#): > > Anarchy sounds good to me > then someone asks, "Who’d fix the serwers? > “Would the rednecks just play ‘King of the neighborhood’?” > How many liberators really want to be dictator? Yadda yadda yadda. He had this thing for human nature too, like many on the boards here. Human nature, apparently, is static and certain key behavior is fixed from birth. That is one of the implicit claims people against anarchy make: that this hard and fast behavior is where we get all crime from. I feel this argument to be completely nonsensical, but I get it all the time anyway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anarchy-worst-thing-ever/78680.md?page=3)