# anatomy of Tyrannosaurus skull/brain **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 2, 2008, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anatomy-of-tyrannosaurus-skull-brain/451480 "2008-06-02T15:03:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anatomy-of-tyrannosaurus-skull-brain/451480/1 "2008-06-02T15:03:41Z")
Was the brain of Tyrannosaurus completely enclosed within a cranium, or did any of the fenestrae of it’s skull window to the brain? Faced with a hungry tyrannosaur, could someone with a handgun shoot it directly in the brain with a well-aimed shot? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anatomy-of-tyrannosaurus-skull-brain/451480/2 "2008-06-02T15:11:28Z")
I’m pretty sure that those large-headed theropods had those arched, lightweight skull parts in areas of their heads away from the brain itself, which was completely enclosed. IANAPaleontologist, but I used to have a posted of the “Head Skeleton of an Allosaur” up on my wall (I don’t know why they couldn’t call it a “Skull”), and I recall it showing the brain enclosed. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anatomy-of-tyrannosaurus-skull-brain/451480/3 "2008-06-02T15:34:26Z")
Here is [the best diagram I could find](http://www.dorlingkindersley-uk.co.uk/nf/ClipArt/Image/0,,239019_1581899_,00.html). It’s hard to tell, but it does look as if either the orbit or one of the fenestrae would at least be the thnnest part of the skull to try to penetrate. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anatomy-of-tyrannosaurus-skull-brain/451480/4 "2008-06-02T16:29:01Z")
[QUOTE=Lumpy] Was the brain of Tyrannosaurus completely enclosed within a cranium, or did any of the fenestrae of it’s skull window to the brain? Faced with a hungry tyrannosaur, could someone with a handgun shoot it directly in the brain with a well-aimed shot? [/QUOTE] With a big enough handgun (okay, rifle) you could presumably cause enough trauma to kill it by shooting through the bone. ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anatomy-of-tyrannosaurus-skull-brain/451480/5 "2008-06-02T18:16:04Z")
[QUOTE=Lumpy] Was the brain of Tyrannosaurus completely enclosed within a cranium, or did any of the fenestrae of it’s skull window to the brain? Faced with a hungry tyrannosaur, could someone with a handgun shoot it directly in the brain with a well-aimed shot? [/QUOTE] The brain was completely enclosed. See [page 22 of this paper](http://www.biology.ualberta.ca/faculty/philip_currie/uploads/pdfs/2003/2003TyrannosauridAnatomy.pdf) (.pdf doc) for a _Daspletosaurus_ braincase, for example (_Daspletosaurus_ was a close relative of _Tyrannosaurus_). The bones surrounding the brain of a _Tyrannosaurus_ appear to have been only about 3mm thick, and heavily pneumaticized, so I wouldn’t doubt that a high-powered gun could penetrate the bone. Actually hitting the brain, on the other hand, given its size, is probably another rmatter entirely… ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anatomy-of-tyrannosaurus-skull-brain/451480/6 "2008-06-02T18:24:10Z")
[QUOTE=Darwin’s Finch] The brain was completely enclosed. See [page 22 of this paper](http://www.biology.ualberta.ca/faculty/philip_currie/uploads/pdfs/2003/2003TyrannosauridAnatomy.pdf) (.pdf doc) for a _Daspletosaurus_ braincase, for example (_Daspletosaurus_ was a close relative of _Tyrannosaurus_). [/QUOTE] By completely enclosed, do you mean there’s bone _behind_ the orbital? ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anatomy-of-tyrannosaurus-skull-brain/451480/7 "2008-06-02T20:56:17Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] By completely enclosed, do you mean there’s bone _behind_ the orbital? [/QUOTE] I’m not quite sure what you mean. But you can see on page 4 of that paper where the braincase sits in the skull: it’s that mass of bone that you can see in the middle of the orbital cavity extending to the back of the skull (though it’s really sitting midline, between the orbitals, as seen in the ventral image [the second image on page 4]. The basipterygoid forms part of the floor of the braincase). Of course, it’s not _entirely_ encased, as there are necessarily assorted foramen through which nerves and blood vessels passed. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anatomy-of-tyrannosaurus-skull-brain/451480/8 "2008-06-02T21:13:08Z")
[QUOTE=Darwin’s Finch] I’m not quite sure what you mean. But you can see on page 4 of that paper where the braincase sits in the skull: it’s that mass of bone that you can see in the middle of the orbital cavity extending to the back of the skull (though it’s really sitting midline, between the orbitals, as seen in the ventral image [the second image on page 4]. The basipterygoid forms part of the floor of the braincase). Of course, it’s not _entirely_ encased, as there are necessarily assorted foramen through which nerves and blood vessels passed. [/QUOTE] That’s what I meant - could a bullet pass through the eyeball and into the brain without passing through bone - and I gather the answer is more or less no. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anatomy-of-tyrannosaurus-skull-brain/451480/9 "2008-06-02T21:23:35Z")
Why would someone with a hand gun be in close proximity to a living T-Rex? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anatomy-of-tyrannosaurus-skull-brain/451480/10 "2008-06-02T21:31:29Z")
[QUOTE=Inigo Montoya] Why would someone with a hand gun be in close proximity to a living T-Rex? [/QUOTE] Would you walk up to a living T-Rex unarmed? ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anatomy-of-tyrannosaurus-skull-brain/451480/11 "2008-06-02T21:48:40Z")
[QUOTE=Lobohan] Would you walk up to a living T-Rex unarmed? [/QUOTE] Point taken. I humbly withdraw. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anatomy-of-tyrannosaurus-skull-brain/451480/12 "2008-06-02T22:05:01Z")
[QUOTE=Inigo Montoya] Why would someone with a hand gun be in close proximity to a living T-Rex? [/QUOTE] I was imagining a hypothetical Dr. Who episode in which someone from UNIT becomes a companion for at least for one trip back to the Mesozoic. Cornered by a hungry T-Rex, they fire off a single desperate forlorn-hope shot, which turns out to be the luckiest shot of their life when it hits the T-Rex straight in the brain through the thinnest part of the skull. ---
**Author:** ![Reno\_Nevada](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Reno\_Nevada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reno_Nevada)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anatomy-of-tyrannosaurus-skull-brain/451480/13 "2008-06-03T14:07:07Z")
[QUOTE=Lumpy] I was imagining a hypothetical Dr. Who episode in which someone from UNIT becomes a companion for at least for one trip back to the Mesozoic. Cornered by a hungry T-Rex, they fire off a single desperate forlorn-hope shot, which turns out to be the luckiest shot of their life when it hits the T-Rex straight in the brain through the thinnest part of the skull. [/QUOTE] That is not a very likely Dr. Who episode. When has a member of UNIT \*ever \*run into something that could be stopped by bullets? The SF reference is _A Gun For Dinosaur_, by L Sprague do Camp, about why hunting parties to the Mesozoic should not carry wimp guns like a .303. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anatomy-of-tyrannosaurus-skull-brain/451480/14 "2008-06-03T16:24:04Z")
[QUOTE=Reno Nevada] That is not a very likely Dr. Who episode. When has a member of UNIT \*ever \*run into something that could be stopped by bullets? The SF reference is _A Gun For Dinosaur_, by L Sprague do Camp, about why hunting parties to the Mesozoic should not carry wimp guns like a .303. [/QUOTE] Actually UNIT did quite well in **The Sontaran Stratagem** , once they finally switched to non-copper cartridges. As for the size gun needed for dinosaurs, I was imagining a two-three episode companion (like Harry Sullivan or Mickey Smith) who much to the Doctor’s disapproval is a bit of a gun nut, and carries an enormously powerful handgun (like a S&W 500, or European equivalent), and one of the running gags would be that on select occasions he demonstrates that brute force is indeed the answer. Perhaps inspired by **The Sontaran Stratagem** , whenCol. Mace simply shoots General Staal dead. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anatomy-of-tyrannosaurus-skull-brain/451480/15 "2008-06-03T17:11:40Z")
A couple of years back I was at a talk by a scientist who was involved in the study/mounting of the T-Rex “Sue.” As I recall, they performed considerable testing, including CT scans, on the skull. You might find some info of interest by searching for Sue and CT scan. I found something [here](http://www.fieldmuseum.org/SUE/about_skull_ctscan2.asp), but can’t run the images at work. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anatomy-of-tyrannosaurus-skull-brain/451480/16 "2008-06-03T17:22:13Z")
[QUOTE=Inigo Montoya] Why would someone with a hand gun be in close proximity to a living T-Rex? [/QUOTE] Time machine. Hunting service. Butterfly. You know the drill. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anatomy-of-tyrannosaurus-skull-brain/451480/17 "2008-06-03T22:50:57Z")
Another reason why I love the Dope. Frank discussions on the best way to kill things like dinosaurs and zombies.