# Ancient Aliens? Possible or bullshit? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 3, 2013, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-aliens-possible-or-bullshit/659994 "2013-06-03T02:36:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-aliens-possible-or-bullshit/659994/41 "2013-06-03T22:14:10Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Now it could have been flat out “here’s how you do it”. Or projected voices. Or just manipulating situations behind the scenes so at to make the “discovery” very likely to happen… Or by giving some humans a tendency to experiment, fool around, try new things, see what works and what doesn’t … ---
**Author:** ![Yumblie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/76d3ee/32.png) [@Yumblie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yumblie)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-aliens-possible-or-bullshit/659994/42 "2013-06-04T06:54:59Z")
> [@FairyChatMom](#): > > Isn’t it interesting how beavers can build dams, birds can build some pretty amazing nests, bees build hives, but ancient peoples couldn’t possibly have figured out how to build anything beyond primitive tools and holes in the ground… :rolleyes: That’s it! Aliens came to Earth to teach beavers, birds, and bees how to build things, and then those animals taught humans! So really, beavers are responsible for the pyramids. It all makes sense! ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-aliens-possible-or-bullshit/659994/43 "2013-06-04T07:21:31Z")
“Possible or bullshit” isn’t a valid division of the ways of assessing the programs about ancient aliens on H2. Anything whatsoever is possible. Anything. The question is what do we have any reasonable evidence for. The evidence offered on those programs just isn’t sufficient. You don’t have time to watch TV programs about things with virtually no evidence for them. Find something better to do with your time. ---
**Author:** ![Doggo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/87869e/32.png) [@Doggo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doggo)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-aliens-possible-or-bullshit/659994/44 "2013-06-04T12:02:16Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > I’ll go with “or bullshit”, Alex - it\* is\* History 2. That channel has about as much to do with proper history as MTV has to do with actual music video any more. They were better when they were The Hitler Channel. > In the sense that anything that’s not impossible due to a violation of fundamental physical or mathematical law is possible. Seeding or engineering evolution could be conceivable but AFAIK we’d currently really have no way of detecting evidence, save for the finding of a 1x4x9 perfectly rectangular absolutely black monolith standing among the 3 million year old sediments somewhere in the Rift Valley. > > However when it comes to some of the other things mentioned in the OP, I gotta go fetch the strop for Mr. Occam: > > **OT miracles** : Not-so-spectacular events, or big but otherwise natural disasters, that got distorted and magnified in the oral telling and retelling for centuries before they got written down. Or even just-so mythical stories told to teach a lesson. > > **Atlantis** : A piece of fiction by Plato, written to make a point. > > **Pyramids, Machu Picchu, Rapa Nui, Mayas** : Our ancient ancestors were quite clever and capable enough to design and build impressive things and had the organization and the will to do so. In the cases of Easter and the Maya, to the point of depleting resources to the point they could not go on doing it. Go into the chamber in the Great Pyramid and feel the wall and then tell me that people with primitive tools could produce that. I couldn’t do it with a modern chisel, so how did they? Stonehenge is an example of primitive technology, but there is nothing primitive about the pyramids, and they were built before steel was invented. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-aliens-possible-or-bullshit/659994/45 "2013-06-04T12:06:43Z")
> [@Doggo](#): > > Go into the chamber in the Great Pyramid and feel the wall and then tell me that people with primitive tools could produce that. I couldn’t do it with a modern chisel, so how did they? > Stonehenge is an example of primitive technology, but there is nothing primitive about the pyramids, and they were built before steel was invented. Premise 1: I am ignorant about how it could be done. Premise 2: I don’t want to investigate the possibilities. Conclusion: Aliens did it. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-aliens-possible-or-bullshit/659994/46 "2013-06-04T12:08:00Z")
There was an episode of Nova (IIRC) in which Isaac Asimov interviewed Erich van Daniken, author of _Chariot of the Gods_. It was everything you’d want it to be: Isaac basically had Erich admitting everything he’d ever written was utter rubbish. ---
**Author:** ![Doggo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/87869e/32.png) [@Doggo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doggo)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-aliens-possible-or-bullshit/659994/47 "2013-06-04T12:08:12Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > Sort of like assuming that the programmers who used 2-digit year dates before 2000 were predicting the end of the world in 2000. Maybe the Mayans used a calendar that ended in 2012 for similar reasons. The Mayans who devised that calendar aren’t around any more, unlike at least some of the programmers, so we can’t ask them. > > Why would aliens want to do this? Everything we know now seems to indicate that interstellar travel will always be difficult and time-consuming. Barring some totally new discovery in physics, it’s something you’d only do if you had a really good reason to do it. What would be their reason for doing this? > > If we’re their descendants, you’d think they would have left all their alien technology here for us, along with a record of where they came from. They got here in the first place, so getting back here if we lost that information, or just transmitting that information back to us, shouldn’t be impossible. If we set up a colony on Mars, we’d take all of our technology with us, not just the means for building pyramids. > > If humans, and not other life on Earth, were alien, you’d expect us to be much less similar to other life on Earth than we actually are. It’s very unlikely we would share 90+% of our DNA with chimpanzees in that case. If just one or a few groups of humans were aliens, you’d expect them to be unable to interbreed with other humans. We have yet to find a group of humans that can’t do this. So this is my theory- aliens came to settle on Earth thousands of years ago. They bred humans from genetically modified apes to be worker slaves. Eventually something happened to kill off all the aliens, and as the humans were pretty unintelligent back then, all traces of the aliens were lost. Got a better one? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-aliens-possible-or-bullshit/659994/48 "2013-06-04T12:24:15Z")
> [@Doggo](#): > > So this is my theory- Nitpick: That’s your _hypothesis_. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-aliens-possible-or-bullshit/659994/49 "2013-06-04T12:24:55Z")
> [@Doggo](#): > > Go into the chamber in the Great Pyramid and feel the wall and then tell me that people with primitive tools could produce that. I couldn’t do it with a modern chisel, so how did they? > Stonehenge is an example of primitive technology, but there is nothing primitive about the pyramids, and they were built before steel was invented. Hands off! ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-aliens-possible-or-bullshit/659994/50 "2013-06-04T12:35:23Z")
You don’t make smooth surfaces with chisels. You make them by grinding one surface against another. You give me 3 pieces of glass, a source of grit (sand will do), some rust, some tar, and I can make you 3 disks that are baby butt smooth and flat to fraction of a wavelength of light. Seriously, it can be done. It might take awhile to get than to that level but its doable. If you just want looks damn flat and feels damn smooth that’s easy peasy. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-aliens-possible-or-bullshit/659994/51 "2013-06-04T12:53:30Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > You don’t make smooth surfaces with chisels. You make them by grinding one surface against another. This has been demonstrated. There was a documentary that showed Egyptians using ancient tools (or replicas of them, anyway) to fashion blocks of stone to represent ones used in the pyramids. IIRC, one block was supported over the other using ropes. Its lower surface was ground against the upper surface of the other block until they fitted perfectly. It was not a very long process. One hypothesis is that ancient Egyptians fitted the blocks together so nicely in the pyramids by grinding the surfaces of the soft stone together. Another hypothesis is that aliens did it. A theory can be tested, and it has been shown that the pyramids could be built by people using primitive tools. So far, there is no evidence to disprove the theory. ‘Aliens did it’ cannot be tested, so the hypothesis can’t be proven to be true. Given the option of choosing that ancient people built the pyramids using primitive tools and know-how, which has been demonstrated to be possible; or that aliens came from outer space and said to the Egyptians, ‘Hey, y’all want some pointy buildings?’ and broke out their laser rock-cutters and anti-gravity plates, which cannot be proven, I’m kinda-sorta leaning toward the rock-grinding theory. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-aliens-possible-or-bullshit/659994/52 "2013-06-04T13:17:33Z")
> [@Doggo](#): > > So this is my theory- > aliens came to settle on Earth thousands of years ago. They bred humans from genetically modified apes to be worker slaves. Eventually something happened to kill off all the aliens, and as the humans were pretty unintelligent back then, all traces of the aliens were lost. > > Got a better one? Yes. Here it is: that didn’t happen. Evidence: there is absolutely NO SIGN of genetic tampering in the human genome. And we have the ability now to pick it up if it were there. Note that I provide evidence, which you do not. Therefore I win. If you have evidence to share, please feel free to post it. Otherwise, shut up. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-aliens-possible-or-bullshit/659994/53 "2013-06-04T15:27:58Z")
Easy there Rimmer, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Although the complete lack of evidence of alien assistance does allow for the odd look at the ET conspiracists. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-aliens-possible-or-bullshit/659994/54 "2013-06-04T15:57:48Z")
> [@The Great Sun Jester](#): > > absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Well, it isn’t _proof_ of absence, but it certainly can be evidence - at the very least, circumstantial evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-aliens-possible-or-bullshit/659994/55 "2013-06-04T16:03:39Z")
I’m assuming that aliens have better shit to do with their time. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-aliens-possible-or-bullshit/659994/56 "2013-06-04T16:10:59Z")
> [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > I’m assuming that aliens have better shit to do with their time. Especially since we Earthlings are probably so lacking in intelligence compared to the average alien. Try talking to a worm about rocket science sometime; maybe that’s how advanced space & time travelers feel about us. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-aliens-possible-or-bullshit/659994/57 "2013-06-04T16:12:59Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Premise 1: I am ignorant about how it could be done. > > Premise 2: I don’t want to investigate the possibilities. > > Conclusion: Aliens did it. That’s a pretty good summary of all ancient astronaut stories. Throw in a bit of racism (those folks couldn’t be smarter than me) and you’ve got it covered. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-aliens-possible-or-bullshit/659994/58 "2013-06-04T16:21:32Z")
Did you want to contact the mods about removing that “or” that was mistakenly inserted into the title? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-aliens-possible-or-bullshit/659994/59 "2013-06-04T16:23:13Z")
> [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > I’m assuming that aliens have better shit to do with their time. I dunno… after 500 million years of Dancing With The Stars and The View I suspect pretty much anything starts to look like a better way to spend your time. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-aliens-possible-or-bullshit/659994/60 "2013-06-04T17:06:38Z")
> [@The Great Sun Jester](#): > > Easy there Rimmer, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. That quote always sounds good, but it’s fairly misleading. Absence of \*expected \*evidence for something is actually quite good evidence that said something did not occur. If I claim that teenagers played paintball in my house last weekend, but there are no signs of damage, paint, or intrusion a day later, that’s a pretty good sign that my claim is incorrect. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-aliens-possible-or-bullshit/659994.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-aliens-possible-or-bullshit/659994.md?page=4)