# Ancient Apocalypse....really? A "new" Netflix "documentary" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** netflix, documentary-bio\ **Created:** [December 14, 2022, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-apocalypse-really-a-new-netflix-documentary/976510 "2022-12-14T14:24:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2022, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-apocalypse-really-a-new-netflix-documentary/976510/21 "2022-12-14T15:38:14Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > but their business is having a tough time Cite? i’ve heard this a lot the last year, but ISTM that there are two things being conflated. Netflix has reached something like market saturation and isn’t growing its subscriber base. That, in and of itself, is not a problem. For investors, hoping to make money from an increased stock price, this is presented as “Netflix is in crisis mode.” Not because they’'re not turning profit, but because their stock isn’t increasing in value. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2022, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-apocalypse-really-a-new-netflix-documentary/976510/22 "2022-12-14T15:40:21Z")
Netflix is the perfect platform for this sort of thing. A good chunk of the SF and Fantasy offerings there feature a debunked researcher who turns out to be right. _Troll_ was a very recent #1 film on Netflix. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2022, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-apocalypse-really-a-new-netflix-documentary/976510/23 "2022-12-14T15:41:26Z")
> [@tullsterx](#): > > It’s really beyond me why those that profess to be liberal and open-minded scoff at Graham Hancock. I don’t profess to be liberal, but I am a trained Earth scientist and I say Hancock is a woo-pedlar. > [@tullsterx](#): > > He presents ideas for consideration based upon ancient texts No, he does not. > [@tullsterx](#): > > in coordination with researchers You mean “researchers” > [@tullsterx](#): > > I think the Younger Dryas theory is very plausible And your science degree would be in …? > [@tullsterx](#): > > His ideas about an “ancient technologically advanced civilization” are somewhat specious His ideas are a crock of shit. > [@tullsterx](#): > > the parallels between ancient, widely separated cultures is an interesting topic. Oh, why, oh why do _human_ cultures tend to come up with common tropes. If only there was some common feature to all these _human_ cultures that could explain it. But alas, they have absolutely _nothing_ in common, these _human_ cultures. So it must have been ~~aliens~~ Atlanteans > [@tullsterx](#): > > Why does what he presents offend you so? Because lies usually offend me. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2022, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-apocalypse-really-a-new-netflix-documentary/976510/24 "2022-12-14T16:00:12Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > Sean Hancock, Big Liar’s son, is Head of “Unscripted Originals” on Netflix. Which is how his dad was able to sell this **st(r)eaming pile of shit.** > > Ah! well there we go. That at least is one real mystery that’s been cleared up. Bolding mine. That is definitely the best catch-phrase I’ve heard all week. I’m totally stealing it. And @Novelty_Bobble nailed it. That’s the only mystery here. This “documentary” is little more than a gussied-up conspiracy theory. 1. Catchy thesis idea that would be fun if it were true? Check. 2. Supposed “facts” mostly stated as leading questions? Check. 3. Claimed “evidence” that sorta points maybe in a general direction if you suspend all critical thinking first? Check. 4. Evidence that mostly doesn’t actually exist except in the author’s imagination? Check. The only thing missing is the shadowy cabal trying to keep it a secret. But boy does this garbage sell to the rubes. Being as this is CS I’ll refrain from further comment on the larger phenomenon. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2022, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-apocalypse-really-a-new-netflix-documentary/976510/25 "2022-12-14T16:05:16Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > The only thing missing is the shadowy cabal trying to keep it a secret. Uh, did you forget about the greatest cabal of all? ACADEMIA ITSELF is arrayed against poor little Graham. I think there’s plenty of “this is the truth THEY don’t want you to know about” to go around, here. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2022, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-apocalypse-really-a-new-netflix-documentary/976510/26 "2022-12-14T16:14:35Z")
I don’t understand the skepticism surrounding the ideas presented in this documentary. Far from mere theory, proof of an ancient civilization was provided by a [Miskatonic University-sponsored geological expedition to Antarctica](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At_the_Mountains_of_Madness) back in the 1930s. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2022, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-apocalypse-really-a-new-netflix-documentary/976510/27 "2022-12-14T16:17:50Z")
> [@Charlie\_Tan](#): > > Cite? You may have good reasons to think the market is wrong, but it seems a bit disingenuous to present this view by asking me for a “cite” when you are obviously aware of the performance of the stock. > [@Charlie\_Tan](#): > > ISTM that there are two things being conflated. Netflix has reached something like market saturation and isn’t growing its subscriber base. That, in and of itself, is not a problem. > For investors, hoping to make money from an increased stock price, this is presented as “Netflix is in crisis mode.” Not because they’'re not turning profit, but because their stock isn’t increasing in value. The stock price IS simply the market consensus of the value of the company’s business, i.e. its future profitability. You may _disagree_ with that consensus and have a more positive view of the company’s prospects, but it’s not that anyone is conflating two separate things. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2022, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-apocalypse-really-a-new-netflix-documentary/976510/28 "2022-12-14T16:18:50Z")
Here are some thoughtful discussions on the question of the evidence that would be left behind by any such putative civilization. As you can see, this is a recurring question around here. Nov 2008: > [@Time for Earth to cover evidence of human presence?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-earth-to-cover-evidence-of-human-presence/474138): > > Let’s say every man, woman and child on Earth dies of whatever reason you fancy. How long before evidence of human habitation is gone? Will it ever? Would a city abandoned for 1000 years look much different from one after 100? 10? Will reinforced concrete eventually disappear? Glass? How about big chunks of radioactive material, nuclear waste, etc? Fancy mechanical parts and medical prosthetics made of exotic and durable metals, ceramics or polymers? I am thinking that changes to the landscap… Feb 2016: > [@How long would it take for all traces of our current civilization to disappear?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-long-would-it-take-for-all-traces-of-our-current-civilization-to-disappear/746528): > > Some disaster, disease, an asteroid, more likely a nuclear exchange and subsequent nuclear winter, wipes out most of humanity. The few humans remaining are obviously reduced to a stone age type existence. How long before traces of our civilization disappear? Cement, asphalt, other artifacts, etc. reduced to dust which, only when civilization and science re-emerge after thousand and thousands of years, are investigated with all kinds of wild theories about past civilizations then being propagate… May 2022: > [@How likely is it that there are undiscovered long-lost ancient buildings in the world?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-is-it-that-there-are-undiscovered-long-lost-ancient-buildings-in-the-world/965473): > > It’s probably fair to say that we, collectively as humans, have discovered all ancient ruins of significant scale (i.e Machu Picchu, Chichen Itza, Angkor Wat, etc…), and that there are probably innumerous ancient smaller structures languishing in deserts and jungles which have been weathered and decayed such that they are barely worth discovering. But, could there be a middle-ground of structures - small pyramids or temples, say… - which have maintained enough structural integrity to still be i… And for comic relief, here is a discussion on another loonie “theory” about the past that has nothing going for it except sheer attractiveness to the cluelessly naive. Dec 2016: > [@What the heck is "There are no forests"?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-heck-is-there-are-no-forests/774050): > > I gather it’s some sort of young earth/flat earth woo, but I don’t feel like sitting through 90-minute YouTube videos to satisfy five minutes’ worth of curiosity. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2022, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-apocalypse-really-a-new-netflix-documentary/976510/29 "2022-12-14T16:18:58Z")
I think that “research or perish” and government grants have a lot to do with this breed of “scientist”. Dr. J. Doe comes up with a hypothesis that he feels is grant worthy. He goes through the process and gets approved. Now, he has to accomplish what he set forth in his grant request, otherwise he will not be funded for further research. So, he ends up finding “evidence” that indicates his hypothesis is valid. It is a self-sustaining cycle. Even if Dr. Doe secretly believes that his hypothesis is a bust, he is not going to find evidence that indicates that conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2022, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-apocalypse-really-a-new-netflix-documentary/976510/30 "2022-12-14T16:49:25Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > I think that “research or perish” and government grants have a lot to do with this breed of “scientist”. Does Graham Hancock get government grants? It would be pretty hypocritical of him to do so (see Lords of Poverty), not that this would stop him. But AFAIK his “research” is paid for by grift, not government? ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2022, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-apocalypse-really-a-new-netflix-documentary/976510/31 "2022-12-14T16:51:11Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > But AFAIK his “research” is paid for by grift, not government? Very possible, but I think the same principle applies. He needs to find what his patron is hoping he will find. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2022, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-apocalypse-really-a-new-netflix-documentary/976510/32 "2022-12-14T16:52:18Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > Very possible, but I think the same principle applies Yes, very much so. It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2022, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-apocalypse-really-a-new-netflix-documentary/976510/33 "2022-12-14T17:17:28Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > > [@Charlie\_Tan](#): > > > > ISTM that there are two things being conflated. Netflix has reached something like market saturation and isn’t growing its subscriber base. That, in and of itself, is not a problem. > > For investors, hoping to make money from an increased stock price, this is presented as “Netflix is in crisis mode.” Not because they’'re not turning profit, but because their stock isn’t increasing in value. > > The stock price IS simply the market consensus of the value of the company’s business, i.e. its future profitability. You may _disagree_ with that consensus and have a more positive view of the company’s prospects, but it’s not that anyone is conflating two separate things. IMO you’re both sorta right but talking past one another. A fast-growing company’s stock is priced based not on today’s earnings, but on tomorrow’s. For some vague net present value notion of what / when constitutes “tomorrow”. Substantially every successful company evolves from fast-growing to slow-growing to stable in size. And in almost all cases the stock price is more optimistic than the eventual reality once the slowing phase begins. Doubly so for a business in a currently darling industry and double-double so if it’s during a general boom time in stocks in general. Which is where IMO Netflix finds itself. As a business, they’re doing fine and can continue to do fine for potentially decades to come. As a quick-buck growth stock they’re doing notso nice. And there is no logical disconnect that both those things can be true simultaneously. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2022, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-apocalypse-really-a-new-netflix-documentary/976510/34 "2022-12-14T18:37:12Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Oh, why, oh why do _human_ cultures tend to come up with common tropes. If only there was some common feature to all these _human_ cultures that could explain it. But alas, they have absolutely _nothing_ in common, these _human_ cultures. So it must have been ~~aliens~~ Atlanteans But, dude! Doesn’t it, like, blow your mind that civilizations as distant as the Mesoamericans, the Mound Builders, the ancient Egyptians, and the Sumerians all built pyramids?! That’s gotta mean something, right? There’s no way all those disparate cultures could have figured out how to pile up rocks to make a pyramid - literally the simplest structure to build - by themselves, right? It _must_ have been aliens! ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2022, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-apocalypse-really-a-new-netflix-documentary/976510/35 "2022-12-14T18:55:11Z")
> [@tullsterx](#): > > I think the Younger Dryas theory is very plausible with gaining support. The Younger Dryas is not a “theory”, it is a term for a period of climate data observed in the geological record. > **[Younger Dryas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas)** > > The Younger Dryas, which occurred circa 12,900 to 11,700 years BP, was a return to glacial conditions which temporarily reversed the gradual climatic warming after the Last Glacial Maximum, which lasted from circa 27,000 to 20,000 years BP. The Younger Dryas was the last stage of the Pleistocene epoch that spanned from 2,580,000 to 11,700 years BP and it preceded the current, warmer Holocene epoch. The Younger Dryas was the most severe and longest lasting of several interruptions to the war The... ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2022, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-apocalypse-really-a-new-netflix-documentary/976510/36 "2022-12-14T19:19:42Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > The Younger Dryas is not a “theory”, it is a term for a period of climate data observed in the geological record He meant to refer to the Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis, which posits that the rapid cooling of the Younger Dryas period was caused by a comet impact. Supposedly this catastrophic impact and subsequent climate change is what wiped out Hancock’s ancient civilization. Interestingly, Hancock also likes to claim that the standard theory of a 1-2 punch combo - climate change anf the arrival of humans - cannot explain the disappearance of the Ice age Megafauna, and point to this alleged comet as a more likely cause. It’s interesting how here, too, he robs ancient people of agency. Hunter-gatherers couldn’t have possibly hunted away the mammoths! Egyptians couldn’t have built the pyramids! It’s a minimization of human capability and therefore culpability. I note that Graham Hancock is also ‘skeptical’, to put it generously, about the idea that modern climate change is caused by human action. It seems to me that one can draw a clear line between the logic that leads to each conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2022, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-apocalypse-really-a-new-netflix-documentary/976510/37 "2022-12-14T20:14:04Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > He meant to refer to the Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis Oh, I’m familiar with that one. > [@Why are there no dinosaur-size land animals today?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-dinosaur-size-land-animals-today/793226/98): > > Is [Science good enough](http://science.sciencemag.org/content/329/5996/1140)? How about [this](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/251557038_The_Younger_Dryas_impact_hypothesis_A_requiem) one? Or [this](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4938604/) one? Or [this](https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/history-of-geology/httpblogsscientificamericancomhistory-of-geology20110727the-younger-dryas-impact-hypothesis/)? Or pick your own from the citations in [the Wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas_impact_hypothesis#Criticism). The story was horseshit by crackpots more than 10 years ago when I first started reading about it, and is horseshit from crackpots today. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2022, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-apocalypse-really-a-new-netflix-documentary/976510/38 "2022-12-14T20:18:17Z")
And a longer post from that thread: > [@Why are there no dinosaur-size land animals today?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-dinosaur-size-land-animals-today/793226/91): > > Okay, more of Firestone and West. They published their “theory” in the form of a mass-market book with the title The Cycle of Cosmic Catastrophes. Here is just a small sampling of their ideas, quoting from the book. (Spoilered for length.) So, that’s your scientific credibility of Firestone and West right there. These people were crackpots spewing insane horseshit. If you really want to side yourself with them, that’s your choice, but that isn’t glory that you are covering yourself with. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2022, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-apocalypse-really-a-new-netflix-documentary/976510/39 "2022-12-14T21:03:21Z")
I came across my old copy of Martin Gardner’s (Fads and Fallacies) In the Name of Science, from 1952. He covers everything from Hollow Earth to orgone boxes to ESP to Dianetics, a century of hoaxes, crackpots, deluded scientists, bad research, and miscellaneous facts yoked together with superglue. Pseudoscience is like pyramids. It can be found all over the world in many guises but comes from basics about humanity’s need to believe, to challenge authority, and to overrate their own knowledge, along with the certainty that suckers exist to be fleeced. Hancock’s whole long career can be dropped in without a ripple. Anyone familiar with real science from real scientists can tell the difference in a nanosecond. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2022, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-apocalypse-really-a-new-netflix-documentary/976510/40 "2022-12-14T22:41:40Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Pseudoscience is like pyramids. [No kidding.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramidology) 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-apocalypse-really-a-new-netflix-documentary/976510.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-apocalypse-really-a-new-netflix-documentary/976510.md?page=3)