# Ancient Greeks preferred smaller penises? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 9, 2007, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-greeks-preferred-smaller-penises/399350 "2007-04-09T18:49:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2007, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-greeks-preferred-smaller-penises/399350/1 "2007-04-09T18:49:50Z")
From Wikipedia’s page on [Innuendo](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innuendo); > [@](#): > > In terms of Greek theatre, in the Greek comedy Lysistrata written by Aristophanes, an innuendo is clearly visible when Lysistrata tells Cleonice that something of huge importance is about to occur. Cleonice replies by asking “big and meaty?”. A child may see this as a big and meaty story, whereas it means long and thick - relating to the male genital, the phallus. (This is an unusual Greek piece of its time because\*\* most Ancient Greek references to penis size were in favour of smaller penises\*\*, in contrast to modern societies, of which Lysistrata is more typical.) (my bolding) Is this an accurate summary of Ancient Greek writings? Did they generally tend towards describing smaller penises? Could we say this a trend that covers Ancient Greek cultures in general? ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2007, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-greeks-preferred-smaller-penises/399350/2 "2007-04-09T19:14:45Z")
Cecil seems to agree, to some extent, and he attributes his source: [http://www.straightdope.com/columns/051209.html](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/051209.html) > [@](#): > > From this vast array of XXX-rated artwork we can make a few deductions about Greek aesthetic preferences, genitaliawise (here I mainly follow Kenneth Dover’s landmark study Greek Homosexuality, 1978): (1) Long, thick penises were considered–at least in the highbrow view-- grotesque, comic, or both and were usually found on fertility gods, half-animal critters such as satyrs, ugly old men, and barbarians. A circumcised penis was particularly gross. (2) The ideal penis was small, thin, and covered with a long, tapered foreskin. Dover thinks the immature male’s equipment was especially admired, which may account not only for the small size but the scarcity of body hair in classical art. A passage from Aristophanes sums up the most desirable masculine features: “a gleaming chest, bright skin, broad shoulders, tiny tongue, strong buttocks, and a little prick.” BTW, The Straight Dope seems to have been plagiarized here: [http://www.4-men.org/penis-size/greeks.html](http://www.4-men.org/penis-size/greeks.html) ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2007, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-greeks-preferred-smaller-penises/399350/3 "2007-04-09T19:58:31Z")
Not only in ancient literature, but also in ancient artwork – you can see nude Greek (and later Roman) athletes and warriors have relativelt small penes. I personally suspect that there was some interest/fantasizing about larger penes (human nature doesn’t change _that_ much through time), but that such imagery was concentrated on certain set figures – and not merely fertlity figures. Hermes was, besides being the Messenger of the Gods, also the God of Boundaries, and the Greeks set up “statues” which were basically stone blocks with a sculpted head at about head level, and a phallus at about phallus level. These penese weren’t particularly small (nor overly large). The Romans also set up Herms, as these were called, but over time they sculpted more and more of the body, and evebtually hid the erection under drapery (under which its form was, nonetheless, clearly visible). Sometimes the figure was shown anointing the erection. In any case, it wasn’t a small erection. There were also grotesque drawves shown with oversized penes. The god Priapos had an outrageously huge penis. And there were large disembodied palli that adorned the outsides of buildings, and mosaic floor inlays. In short, there was no shortage of oversized penes in Greek and Roman art. The ideal might have been small penes, but you could say that the current Western ideal of beauty is female breasts of a moderate size. Yet Dolly Parton and R-rated teen flicks and Juggs magazine manage to exist in the same culture. ---
**Author:** ![happywaffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ee59a6/32.png) [@happywaffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happywaffle)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2007, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-greeks-preferred-smaller-penises/399350/4 "2007-04-09T22:06:39Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] Yet Dolly Parton and R-rated teen flicks and Juggs magazine manage to exist in the same culture. [/QUOTE] And thank Zeus for that! 😃