# Ancient History, I know, but.... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 5, 1999, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-history-i-know-but/16732 "1999-09-05T13:59:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 1999, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-history-i-know-but/16732/81 "1999-09-10T23:39:00Z")
Rich wrote: > [@](#): > > Yeah, I do. I’d just suggest you not think of Mormonism as “orthodox” Christianity. “The one, true way” is different from “orthodox.” Okay, I get the point. I won’t think of Mormonism as “orthodox Christianity,” but rather as “restored Christianity.” ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 1999, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-history-i-know-but/16732/82 "1999-09-11T01:41:00Z")
ARG220, Member, posted a lie on 09-10-1999 at 05:59 PM, to wit: > [@](#): > > Both you, and Monty have said that you don’t see any contradictions in the Bible vs. BOM, and that you have both studied the Bible. And as Adam himself asked me, I am pointing that out to him. Adam: what I did say was in response you your asking how the Book of Mormon could be true with all its contradicitons; contradictions of which you yourself have no knowledge because you refuse to read the thing for yourself. I merely pointed out that the Bible also contains contradictions. Let us assume that the Old and New Testaments are part of the one Bible. Then let’s cruise on over to Exodus 20:7 which states: > [@](#): > > Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. Now Matthew 12:21 states: > [@](#): > > Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. Now, I’d say that “all manner of sin and blasphemy” would include that which was explicitly stated in Exodus as something for which the Lord would not hold someone guiltless. Looks to me like a contradiction. But then I never said that either the Bible nor the Book of Mormon was without them. You did, Adam. You also lied when you said that I said the Book of Mormon was without contradiction. Now here’s your chance to admit you lied recently. (See above.) ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 1999, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-history-i-know-but/16732/83 "1999-09-11T01:48:00Z")
ARG, still not getting it, said: > [@](#): > > David, David. I’m fully aware of what I’m saying. You can’t compare Mormons, and me, because I don’t call myself Mormon. Hmm, did that make sense? Probabaly not. No, it didn’t. You had said: “it doesn’t matter how much evidence is stacked against them. It doesn’t matter how many contradictions you show.” See, now, Adam, this describes **you**. I don’t care what book you use, I don’t care what you think you meant. The fact of the matter is that you described yourself perfectly, and you still don’t even realize it. ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 1999, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-history-i-know-but/16732/84 "1999-09-11T01:53:00Z")
ARG, really not getting it, also said: > [@](#): > > As I said, it doesn’t matter what evidence I provide. Both you, and Monty have said that you don’t see any contradictions in the Bible vs. BOM, and that you have both studied the Bible. I can show you these things until I’m blue in the face, but until they are hidden in your heart, it won’t make a difference. More self-description from Adam. In other threads, people have shown you contradictions _within_ the Bible. You ignore them or try to rationalize them away. People show you contradictions between the Bible and the real world. You ignore them. ## To quote somebody you know well: “I can show you these things until I’m blue in the face, but it won’t make a difference.” “It is wrong always, everywhere, and for anyone, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence.” – William Kingdon Clifford ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 1999, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-history-i-know-but/16732/85 "1999-09-11T02:22:00Z")
And now he’s refusing to civilly discuss Mormonism at all with me in the thread I started called “ARG220 and Mormonism.” I find it incredible that he continues to make the claim that Mormons don’t or won’t listen to him, and yet refuses to sit down and discuss the subject when it comes right down to it. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 1999, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-history-i-know-but/16732/86 "1999-09-11T03:03:00Z")
Snark: you know, we really should lay off the kid for refusing to read the BofM. Heck, he refuses to read either stick! (Veiled reference to LDS terminology: “sticks” is the Bible and the Book of Mormon together.) Since he refuse to read the whole Bible, why should any be amazed he’ll not read anyone else’s book? ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 1999, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-history-i-know-but/16732/87 "1999-09-11T03:46:00Z")
Monty, you’re right. Let’s just let the kid suck his thumb comfortably in his dark little closet, unaware that there is such a thing as the sunlight and a bigger picture. ---
**Author:** ![VegForLife](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/9de0a6/32.png) [@VegForLife](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VegForLife)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 1999, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-history-i-know-but/16732/88 "1999-09-13T18:02:00Z")
Uh-oh, this looks like the next opportunity for Bill to apologize. . . Rich ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 1999, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-history-i-know-but/16732/89 "1999-09-14T01:55:00Z")
Rich: Do I really apologize too much? I’m sorry, I’ll try not to do that anymore. :: :Ducking and running::: ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 1999, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-history-i-know-but/16732/90 "1999-09-14T01:57:00Z")
Oh my! Looks like my “ducking and running” didn’t turn out quite the way I had phrased it…ROFLMBO! ---
**Author:** ![VegForLife](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/9de0a6/32.png) [@VegForLife](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VegForLife)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 1999, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-history-i-know-but/16732/91 "1999-09-14T15:26:00Z")
Hmm, sounds interesting. . . I’ll have to try :Ducking and running simultaneously sometime, though I’ll have to find a deserted track to try it out. . . Seriously, Bill, yeah, I think you apologize too much, often for stuff for which no apology is necessary. But I suppose that’s better than appearing to be callous and intentionally trying to hurt someone’s feelings, I don’t know. Maybe we should compare notes sometime and you can decide that the other way really _is_ better. 😉 Rich ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 1999, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-history-i-know-but/16732/92 "1999-09-14T18:54:00Z")
Maybe I should try to inslut people from now on, I don’t know. You’re mother wears combat boots! \There! That felt good!\ ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 1999, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-history-i-know-but/16732/93 "1999-09-14T19:24:00Z")
Now that’s a first for me. I usually don’t confuse “your” and “you’re.” I’m terribly sorry. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 1999, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-history-i-know-but/16732/94 "1999-09-14T20:19:00Z")
Rich, part of the reason I apologize so much has to do with my concern over how people perceive me and my religion. I don’t think there’s a single person on this board who doesn’t know that I believe in Mormonism. And inevitably, when I misbehave or insult someone or whatever, someone will say, “So THAT’S how Mormons treat other people.” Never mind the fact that I don’t represent a very large segment of the LDS population. To at least some people, I’m one of the few Mormons they will ever know, and although they shouldn’t draw conclusions about Mormonism based solely on my behavior, this happens anyway. I’ve seen it happen with Christians in general, too. Any time someone who is a Christian acts un-Christlike, there will usually be someone making the comment, “See? **That’s** why I don’t believe in Christianity, because they act like that.” People shouldn’t judge a whole religion by the actions of one adherent, but the fact is, they do, so I have to be very careful in how I’m perceived, since I believe that my church is true and I would be doing it a disservice by misbehaving and having someone believe that ALL Mormons misbehave like me. See what I’m saying? So that’s my rationale behind the excessive apologies. (Of course, if I didn’t misbehave in the first place, none of the apologizing would be necessary. But that’s the way I am.) ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 1999, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-history-i-know-but/16732/95 "1999-09-14T20:30:00Z")
Snark…you’re saying that Mormons apologize a lot?? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 1999, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-history-i-know-but/16732/96 "1999-09-14T20:46:00Z")
Polycarp: Aaaaaarrrrrrrggggghhhhh! There’s a special level in hell reserved for people who make comments like that! (JUST KIDDING!) ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 1999, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-history-i-know-but/16732/97 "1999-09-14T21:10:00Z")
Say you’re sorry!! 😉 😉 😉 ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 1999, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-history-i-know-but/16732/98 "1999-09-14T21:19:00Z")
Polycarp: LOL, somehow I had the feeling you would say that… ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 1999, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-history-i-know-but/16732/99 "1999-09-14T23:02:00Z")
Snarkberry wrote: > [@](#): > > Maybe I should try to inslut people from now on, I don’t know. First the :Ducking and running, and now inslutting people? My oh my, I know what’s been on _your_ mind recently! 😉 tracer, hoping the cops don’t handfucc me. * * * I’m not flying fast, just orbiting low. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 1999, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-history-i-know-but/16732/100 "1999-09-14T23:38:00Z")
I deliberately spelled “inslut” that way–it’s an old inside joke from the SDMB’s AOL days, heh. But newer members of the SDMB couldn’t be expected to know that, I know. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-history-i-know-but/16732.md?page=4)