# (Ancient) torture vs modern pain killers **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 13, 2023, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-torture-vs-modern-pain-killers/988526 "2023-08-13T20:07:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2023, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-torture-vs-modern-pain-killers/988526/21 "2023-08-19T00:09:21Z")
Here ya go: > **[Congenital insensitivity to pain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congenital_insensitivity_to_pain)** > > Congenital insensitivity to pain (CIP), also known as congenital analgesia, is one or more extraordinarily rare conditions in which a person cannot feel (and has never felt) physical pain. The conditions described here are separate from the HSAN group of disorders, which have more specific signs and cause. Because feeling physical pain is vital for survival, CIP is an extremely dangerous condition. It is common for people with the condition to die in childhood due to injuries or illnesses g For p... Generally speaking, CIP is a terrible condition to have. Babies, once they have teeth, will chew their fingers and tongue, and of course children and adults with CIP may be oblivious to serious injuries. OTOH, if you’re hoping to tolerate ancient torture without suffering., CIP is likely extremely helpful. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2023, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-torture-vs-modern-pain-killers/988526/22 "2023-08-19T04:36:43Z")
Thanks for the look-up. Just FTR, this is different from an extremely high tolerance for pain, as is seen in many autistic people. I knew an autistic kid who broke his arm (displaced fracture that needed surgery to pin), and whimpered a little with tears in his eyes. That was an extreme reaction FOR THAT KID, and I knew something was _really_ wrong. But he did feel paid, just didn’t register it unless it was extreme. I think people like that would still respond to torture-- and probably a lot to some forms of torture like deprivation of water, and being kept caged or chained with water visible but just out of reach. Not sure how people with CIP would respond to that. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2023, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-torture-vs-modern-pain-killers/988526/23 "2023-08-19T04:47:36Z")
This seems a difference between feeling pain and reacting to pain. The sensation may be the same for two different people (agony) but they may respond differently. Consider animals (like a dog or cat). They may be in a lot of pain but don’t outwardly show that pain. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2023, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-torture-vs-modern-pain-killers/988526/24 "2023-08-19T04:49:10Z")
Then my dog must be a huge wimp. ---
**Author:** ![Digger11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@Digger11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digger11)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2023, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-torture-vs-modern-pain-killers/988526/25 "2023-08-19T14:42:09Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > No way to temporarily snip/deactivate the nerves in the spine just below the skull? I’m not a medical person, but I don’t think that there’s any way to do that **without** causing irreversible paralysis. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2023, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-torture-vs-modern-pain-killers/988526/26 "2023-08-19T16:03:51Z")
> [@Digger11](#): > > I’m not a medical person, but I don’t think that there’s any way to do that **without** causing irreversible paralysis. You can clamp peripheral nerves, but IIRC, unclamping them can fail sometimes, and other times, takes months before full sensation is restored (ask me about my right big toe some day). I doubt you can do that with the spinal cord, because of the vertebral column, and I wouldn’t want to chance it, if it were me. The person who posted may be thinking about the epidurals they give to women in labor, which are done at the bottom of the spinal column. You are numb, but have full movement. Have no idea whether you can place one at the neck. Googling “Can you place an epidural farther up the spine,” and similar phrases, yields nothing on point. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2023, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-torture-vs-modern-pain-killers/988526/27 "2023-08-19T18:33:01Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > No way to temporarily snip/deactivate the nerves in the spine just below the skull? Wouldn’t also stop respiration and heart beating? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2023, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-torture-vs-modern-pain-killers/988526/28 "2023-08-20T10:23:26Z")
Many many years ago, I suffered a critically urgent tension pneumothorax and was hurried into surgery which required invasive procedures inside my chest cavity. They told me in the rush of preparation that they would be freezing something alongside my spinal column to completely deaden sensation on the left side of my torso, in order to permit the surgery to be performed. I hope it’s understandable that given time and the situation I don’t recall the specifics. When I woke up a dozen hours later, I was in agony _except_ for a cantaloupe sized dead spot mostly inside my chest partially intersecting my ribs and muscles and skin on my side under my left arm. I convalesced for a bit more than a week before being released. I slowly got sensation back over the following months, but at a certain point the restoration of feeling just stopped. It’s 30-odd years later, and that spot under my arm, about the size of a saucer, _still_ feels weird — not totally numb, but partially desensitized, like the feeling when your foot falls asleep, then tingles madly, then stops tingling but isn’t quite fully normal for a minute or so. That last bit is what the side of my chest has felt like for decades. This thread is about painkillers, which pretty much means opiates. But the premise of physically blocking sensation was mentioned a couple times, so I thought my experience might be of interest. ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2023, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-torture-vs-modern-pain-killers/988526/29 "2023-08-20T15:34:21Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > which pretty much means opiates. I live in Southern Africa, where painkillers are not necessarily opiates. I got pethedine, an artificial/non natural opiate before and after fairly major surgery after I involved myself at the losing end of a hit and run. But opiates are not the goto drug. Ketamine is cheaper, stable at room temperature and thus better suited for rural areas where refridgeration is challenging. Ketamine is what we use. It is a disassociative anaesthetic. I think most anaesthetists combine it with a mild dose of an anaesthetic that actually puts you to sleep. Ketamine by itself is pretty strong. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2023, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-torture-vs-modern-pain-killers/988526/30 "2023-08-20T20:42:04Z")
Despite how much pain relief has been studied, there is still a lot we don’t understand. We can’t perfectly treat the extreme levels of pain alluded to in the OP; the kind of doses required would cause loss of consciousness, perhaps permanently. Also, sorry to say, but we don’t need to say _ancient_ torture. I could link examples from recent conflicts but it would take us on a (vomit-inducing) tangent. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ancient-torture-vs-modern-pain-killers/988526.md?page=1)