# And 5 years after Colin Kaepernick’s original kneel down **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 14, 2021, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-5-years-after-colin-kaepernick-s-original-kneel-down/937863 "2021-03-14T02:11:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2021, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-5-years-after-colin-kaepernick-s-original-kneel-down/937863/1 "2021-03-14T02:11:01Z")
… it all comes full circle: [Crystal Palace's Zaha becomes first Premier League player not to kneel before a game](https://www.espn.com/soccer/crystal-palace/story/4337061/crystal-palaces-zaha-becomes-first-premier-league-player-not-to-kneel-before-a-game) That’s right. Standing up is the new kneel down. ---
**Author:** ![stuccosuperstar2020](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@stuccosuperstar2020](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuccosuperstar2020)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2021, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-5-years-after-colin-kaepernick-s-original-kneel-down/937863/2 "2021-03-17T06:45:34Z")
Well, when Kap and the other NFL players knelt, instead of having a discussion about why, white America just said “Stand for the flag or be fired, you sons of bitches!” Then we wondered why there was violence this past summer. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2021, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-5-years-after-colin-kaepernick-s-original-kneel-down/937863/3 "2021-03-17T21:37:15Z")
Because a lot of people, myself included, though he was just being a pouty crybaby sitting though the anthem. I’d rather listen to the sounds from the men’s room during a chili cookoff than anything Kap has to say. Good on him for making the $$$$. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2021, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-5-years-after-colin-kaepernick-s-original-kneel-down/937863/4 "2021-03-17T21:47:47Z")
I can’t imagine why anyone is offended by the kneeling. Perhaps if they were to ask WHY he was doing so rather than engaging in recreational outrage they’d learn something. The same people who got their panties twisted about the kneeling are perfectly okay with the MAGAbots using flag staffs to pummel police officers. Yeah, blue lives matter except when they get in the way of your attempt to overthrow democracy. If kneeling bothers you, nothing I can say will change your mind. Why that bothers you and seeing DJT dry hump a flag on stage doesn’t, I haven’t a clue. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2021, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-5-years-after-colin-kaepernick-s-original-kneel-down/937863/5 "2021-03-17T21:50:42Z")
[Moderating] I’m really not seeing much discussion here relevant to sports, per se. Moving to… I think GD is probably the best fit? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2021, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-5-years-after-colin-kaepernick-s-original-kneel-down/937863/6 "2021-03-17T22:05:11Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Because a lot of people, myself included, though he was just being a pouty crybaby sitting though the anthem. I’d rather listen to the sounds from the men’s room during a chili cookoff than anything Kap has to say. Good on him for making the $$$$. Which is exactly the problem. Daring to protest about police violence against police being unnecessarily violent and killing black people was seen as being a crybaby. It took the murder of Breonna Taylor and George Floyd before these people seemed to realize that he was actually protesting something real, something that a was a real problem we need to fix in our country. And when you know what he is protesting is actually real problem, it start to seems rather racist to say “hey, you can’t protest the killing of your brothers and sisters.” Especially while a lot of us were facing people who wouldn’t wear masks–effectively trying to kill our loved ones. It was never right to see Kaepernick as being a crybaby. And it’s not right to refuse to listen, to continue ignoring the problem. Don’t expect black people or their allies to ever lie down and say “yeah, it’s okay if you kill us.” ---
**Author:** ![WellHelloThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9dc877/32.png) [@WellHelloThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WellHelloThere)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2021, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-5-years-after-colin-kaepernick-s-original-kneel-down/937863/7 "2021-03-17T22:50:33Z")
His behavior is not an issue. The idea that the national anthem is sacred is bizarrely nationalistic. His protest was both justified and non-disruptive, it is the people who freaked out about it that need to adjust their thinking. And he didn’t cry, as far as I know ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2021, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-5-years-after-colin-kaepernick-s-original-kneel-down/937863/8 "2021-03-18T13:55:04Z")
Exactly. And why is the national anthem played before sporting events? Do they play it before large church services start? Or the Monsters of Rock concert begins (Jimi at Woodstock doesn’t count)? Do away with it. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2021, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-5-years-after-colin-kaepernick-s-original-kneel-down/937863/9 "2021-03-18T16:45:37Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I can’t imagine why anyone is offended by the kneeling. Perhaps if they were to ask WHY he was doing so rather than engaging in recreational outrage they’d learn something. Social convention is that you stand for the national anthem and when you flout behavioral expectations it tends to cause offense. Kaepernick intended to upset people in order to draw attention to issues of racial injustice. Which is fine. His actions never particularly upset me and I was never under the impression that he hated America or any such nonsense as that. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2021, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-5-years-after-colin-kaepernick-s-original-kneel-down/937863/10 "2021-03-18T17:10:25Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Social convention is that you stand for the national anthem and when you flout behavioral expectations it tends to cause offense. True, but it’s rather surprising that kneeling (as opposed to Kaepernick’s original response of simply remaining seated) was perceived as so offensive. Kneeling is typically seen as an even more deferential and honoring pose than standing. To me, while Kaepernick’s simply sitting during the anthem would have read as “I refuse to honor this symbol of my country because of systemic racism”, his taking a knee reads as “I honor this symbol of my country and I supplicate for all Americans to be freed from systemic racism”. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2021, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-5-years-after-colin-kaepernick-s-original-kneel-down/937863/11 "2021-03-18T17:12:29Z")
I get that, but I don’t see the outrage. Kap and others have decided that protesting police abuse was important and a way to demonstrate that was by defying social convention. I don’t think your job should depend on following social convention. So not everybody stands during the anthem, it’s not like they tried to storm the Capitol with intent to murder elected officials. If you’re offended by kneeling but not by 1/6, I think you have a bit of soul searching to do. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2021, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-5-years-after-colin-kaepernick-s-original-kneel-down/937863/12 "2021-03-23T15:21:16Z")
The folks storming the Capitol were people that love the country. They would never do anything to break the law. Now, if they were antifa or BLM, that would be concerning! > **[Ron Johnson says he didn't feel threatened Jan. 6. If BLM or Antifa stormed...](https://www.politico.com/news/2021/03/13/ron-johnson-black-lives-matter-antifa-capitol-riot-475727)** > > "Had the tables been turned, and President Trump won the election and those were tens of thousands of Black Lives Matter and Antifa protesters, I might have been a little concerned," Johnson said. This is from a US Senator. I’m guessing he also takes issue with Kap kneeling.