# ...And a player to be named later **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 11, 2011, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-player-to-be-named-later/595985 "2011-09-11T22:55:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Yorikke](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yorikke/32/4335_2.png) [@Yorikke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorikke)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2011, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-player-to-be-named-later/595985/1 "2011-09-11T22:55:46Z")
Any baseball fan should be moderately familiar with this phrase. Often, trades between teams are along the lines of "Player A for Player B and “a player to be named later.” I’ve always wondered how that worked. I assumed that the team receiving the unnamed player just couldn’t decide who they wanted, and would decide at a later date. But what if they decided that there WAS NO player from the other team that they wanted? What happens? Well, listening to the Giants game on the radio, one of the announcers (Dave Fleming) explained it in passing. Now I feel like a maroon for thinking like I used to. He was talking about the Rockies’ starting pitcher, Drew Pomeranz, and mentioned that he was part of the trade that sent Ubaldo Jiminez to Clevelend. He was the player to be named later in that trade! Apparently, you can’t trade a player if he’s been playing for less than a year. That means that when they talk about a player to be named later, it’s not some unknown guy - both teams know who is involved, but can’t officially mention the name because the player isn’t eligible for trade yet! I just thought that was interesting… Joe ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2011, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-player-to-be-named-later/595985/2 "2011-09-11T23:05:14Z")
> [@](#): > > That means that when they talk about a player to be named later, it’s not some unknown guy - both teams know who is involved, but can’t officially mention the name because the player isn’t eligible for trade yet! Not necessarily. Sometimes the teams agree on a short list of potential players, all of roughly equal talent - but that play different positions, or at different levels. By entering into a PTBNL agreement, it gives Team B time to properly scout the players involved. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2011, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-player-to-be-named-later/595985/3 "2011-09-11T23:21:57Z")
It is something of a catchall. Sometimes the player was agreed upon, but the one team wanted to wait to trade him (or there were rules that made them have to wait); other times, the team agrees to pick a player from a list; other times, the decision will be postponed (e.g., “Let’s make the trade now and decide on the players after the season”). As long as the terms are agreeable to both parties, and they don’t conflict with other rules, it can be whatever the two teams want it to be. Famously, the 1962 Mets acquired Harry Chiti for a PTBNL, and then named Chiti as the PTBNL, making him the first player to be traded for himself. A couple of years ago, the Mets traded Billy Wagner to the Red Sox for the PTBNL. The PTBNL was supposed to be Chris Carter, but Carter had to go through waivers. The Yankees made a claim to block him, so the trade had to wait until the season ended. If Carter had cleared waivers, he would have gone to the Mets at that point. If the pitcher was starting for the team, there’s no rule against trading him, BTW. The only restriction is that you can’t trade people on the disabled list, or trade a drafted player for a year after he signs his contract. ---
**Author:** ![Mince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2011, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-player-to-be-named-later/595985/4 "2011-09-11T23:23:07Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Not necessarily. Sometimes the teams agree on a short list of potential players, all of roughly equal talent - but that play different positions, or at different levels. By entering into a PTBNL agreement, it gives Team B time to properly scout the players involved. Or, sometimes, though rarely, neither team has a clue who the potential player might be. Both parties, acknowledging that a trade is a bit unbalanced and eager to make the trade, agree that some player with appropriate talent should be tendered in the future, but the player and time frame may be undefined, though there usually is a “date certain.” ---
**Author:** ![Yorikke](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yorikke/32/4335_2.png) [@Yorikke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorikke)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2011, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-player-to-be-named-later/595985/5 "2011-09-12T00:00:35Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > The only restriction is that you can’t trade people on the disabled list, or **trade a drafted player for a year after he signs his contract**. That was the case in the anecdote I heard. The announcer didn’t say that this was the only use of the PTBNL, but it was a head-slapping moment for me. Everything made sense all of a sudden. Joe ---
**Author:** ![Yorikke](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yorikke/32/4335_2.png) [@Yorikke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorikke)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2011, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-player-to-be-named-later/595985/6 "2011-09-12T00:01:46Z")
> [@Mince](#): > > Or, sometimes, though rarely, neither team has a clue who the potential player might be. Both parties, acknowledging that a trade is a bit unbalanced and eager to make the trade, agree that some player with appropriate talent should be tendered in the future, but the player and time frame may be undefined, though there usually is a “date certain.” That was exactly what I USED to think. What happens if no suitable player is agreed upon by the deadline? Joe ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2011, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-player-to-be-named-later/595985/7 "2011-09-12T00:07:27Z")
> [@wheresgeorge04](#): > > That was exactly what I USED to think. What happens if no suitable player is agreed upon by the deadline? > > Joe There’s probably a clause in there that accounts for that, in which case the team that would have gotten the PTBNL gets some cash. Another reason: Team B would prefer to get Joe Smith, but Joe Smith is currently rehabbing an injury and they want to wait to see how it pans out, and put a couple other guys they’d settle for on their little wish list. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2011, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-player-to-be-named-later/595985/8 "2011-09-12T02:37:09Z")
Or, the player really is to be named later, in the offseason, depending on how well the traded player performs for his new team. That keeps the deal fair and closes the books on the deal. GM’s have to be fair and open with each other or they quickly get reputations, can no longer make deals, and can no longer do their jobs, so that kind of gentlemen’s agreement is common. The team giving up the named player may not really want to keep him and be simply allowing him to get a better opportunity elsewhere, so they’re willing to wait and see. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-player-to-be-named-later/595985/9 "2011-09-12T02:46:28Z")
BTW, Harry Chiti and John McDonald were each the PTBNL[for themselves](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_to_be_named_later). ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2011, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-player-to-be-named-later/595985/10 "2011-09-12T14:59:07Z")
**Larry Hockett:** Who are you? **Crash Davis:** I’m the player to be named later. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-player-to-be-named-later/595985/11 "2011-09-12T16:11:03Z")
[http://blogcritics.org/sports/article/futon-report-all-player-to-be/](http://blogcritics.org/sports/article/futon-report-all-player-to-be/) here is a team of players to be named later. There were some good players tossed in. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-player-to-be-named-later/595985/12 "2011-09-13T01:22:07Z")
Some times a PTBNL is a device for “You scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours” for GMs, or at least used to be. Marty Appel who worked in publicity for the Yankees in the 1960s and 1970s says the famous Sparky Lyle for Danny Cater the Yankees did with the Red Sox was originally just that. But when Lyle turned out to be much better than Cater, Red Sox GM Dick O’Connell asked his Yankee counterpart Lee MacPhail to help him out. O’Connell was getting ripped by Boston fans and media. So MacPhail obliged and sent Mario Guerrero who played a few years as shortstop so O’Connell could say he got two guys for one. ---
**Author:** ![Intelligently\_Designed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intelligently_designed/32/20957_2.png) [@Intelligently\_Designed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intelligently_Designed)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-player-to-be-named-later/595985/13 "2011-09-16T00:07:19Z")
In 1985, Dominican shortstop Jose Gonzalez Uribe changed his name to Jose Uribe because, he said, there were too many Gonzalezes in baseball. Coach Rocky Bridges is famously quoted as saying: “So _he_ is the player to be named later.” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-player-to-be-named-later/595985/14 "2011-09-16T00:56:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Or, sometimes, though rarely, neither team has a clue who the potential player might be. Both parties, acknowledging that a trade is a bit unbalanced and eager to make the trade, agree that some player with appropriate talent should be tendered in the future, but the player and time frame may be undefined, though there usually is a “date certain.” What’s to stop the source team from promoting up the worst player in their farm club and then saying “OK, we’re naming this guy, have fun with him”, or the receiving team from saying “OK, we’re naming your star pitcher that’s got all those no-hitters”? ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-player-to-be-named-later/595985/15 "2011-09-16T03:26:17Z")
It’s always a subject of negotiation. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-player-to-be-named-later/595985/16 "2011-09-16T20:43:56Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > What’s to stop the source team from promoting up the worst player in their farm club and then saying “OK, we’re naming this guy, have fun with him”, or the receiving team from saying “OK, we’re naming your star pitcher that’s got all those no-hitters”? Because the teams have to agree on who is being traded. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-player-to-be-named-later/595985/17 "2011-09-16T22:11:31Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > [http://blogcritics.org/sports/article/futon-report-all-player-to-be/](http://blogcritics.org/sports/article/futon-report-all-player-to-be/) > here is a team of players to be named later. There were some good players tossed in. That’s a hell of a team. David Ortiz, Moises Alou, Kevin Brown… weak bullpen, but it’s quite a starting lineup.