# And a very shitty Ramakwahannumas to you too! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 6, 2005, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-very-shitty-ramakwahannumas-to-you-too/334291 "2005-12-06T03:15:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-very-shitty-ramakwahannumas-to-you-too/334291/41 "2005-12-06T16:53:45Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Then it’s a small shrill minority making a big shrill noise. > I don’t think anyone has a problem with people calling their traditional Yule trees Christmas trees when they are in the homes of individuals. It’s when tax dollars go to public monuments to a particular religion that people start getting worried about a slippery slope. And justifiably so. > > The only thing about this whole mess that really upsets me is that public schools can no longer put on proper Christmas concerts. Because secular holiday music is pretty lame. I am an atheist and the thing in the capital is most definitely a Christmas tree, a nice one at that. I also have no problem with religiously themed Christmas pageants so long as most or all the kids at the school are Christian. If you have kids of other religions there, I think it would be nice to throw in a song or two from their backgrouund. Conversely, if the local populace is predominantly of a different religion then that would be the major theme and there would be one or two Christmas carols. I am all about Church and State separation; I believe we should lose “In God We Trust” and “One Nation Under God”, but I have no problem with sharing and celebrating peoples religions in school pageants. Fun for everyone and you get exposure to the beliefs of others. Oh, and the tendency for businesses to switch to Happy Holidays seems to make sense for them. Businesses are not a single person addressing a single person, so they want to be as general as possible; particularly with larger and larger portions of the population who are non-Christian. Merry Christmas to all from this atheist. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-very-shitty-ramakwahannumas-to-you-too/334291/42 "2005-12-06T17:00:12Z")
> [@betenoir](#): > > Yup, just wanted to say I don’t see any PC offendedness anywhere…this all seems to be a matter of some retailers scratching their heads and thinking gee, not ALL of our customer base is celebrating Christmas…let’s have our retail drones reflect that. > > The only offendedness I’ve seen is, indeed, some Christians who are actually _hostile_ to the idea of being wished a happy holiday. And (as I’ve read, in their own words) vow to wish everyone a merry Christmas…apparently out of spite. Ah yes, very much in the spirit of the season. > > And I don’t get this take at all. HAVE to worry about what a person is? Is it really an oppressive burden to think about someone else for a minute? Is it really a matter of cohersion? If I’m giving a gift I’m not going to give chocolates to a diabetic because, well, I like chocolate. I’m going to think about them. And a greeting is like a gift. If I know someone is Jewish I’m not going to wish them Merry Christmas. If I don’t know…what’s wrong with Happy Holiday? Yes it IS supposed to be about worrying what they are. I thought the whole point was a little let up in total self involvement 🙂 . Eh, I think my point was we’re all humans just wishing good will upon one another. I think we should be thankfull for that and not critisize HOW this good will is being administered. Even though I’m an athiest; I’d like to think even if I _were_ a Christian I hope I wouldn’t get offended as something as harmless as “Happy Hanukkah” . I mean how is this offensive? Really? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-very-shitty-ramakwahannumas-to-you-too/334291/43 "2005-12-06T17:02:09Z")
Happy MY birthday to the exclusion of anything else! I’m gonna be having my birthday party on my birthday for the first time EVER this year, which is pretty cool cuz Hannukah starts on December 25, this year, so we’ll be rocking out my birthday, Christmas and Hannukah all in one. Erek ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-very-shitty-ramakwahannumas-to-you-too/334291/44 "2005-12-06T17:07:26Z")
> [@flight](#): > > I also have no problem with religiously themed Christmas pageants so long as most or all the kids at the school are Christian. If you have kids of other religions there, I think it would be nice to throw in a song or two from their backgrouund. Conversely, if the local populace is predominantly of a different religion then that would be the major theme and there would be one or two Christmas carols. I would have no objection to that, I maybe I’m not seeing all ends, but I can’t understand why anyone else would object to that, either. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-very-shitty-ramakwahannumas-to-you-too/334291/45 "2005-12-06T17:10:28Z")
> [@](#): > > Some people are dicks, and how they choose to be dicks is immaterial, because they just want to be dicks. :::raises hand::: Where’s the line forming up? I wanna make sure I’m near the head of it. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-very-shitty-ramakwahannumas-to-you-too/334291/46 "2005-12-06T17:10:37Z")
> [@SHAKES](#): > > I mean how is this offensive? Really? It isn’t. Neither is Happy Holidays. Or Season’s Greetings. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-very-shitty-ramakwahannumas-to-you-too/334291/47 "2005-12-06T17:15:42Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > Where’s the line forming up? I wanna make sure I’m near the head of it. You wanna be a dick head? ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-very-shitty-ramakwahannumas-to-you-too/334291/48 "2005-12-06T17:30:29Z")
> [@SHAKES](#): > > Eh, I think my point was we’re all humans just wishing good will upon one another. I think we should be thankfull for that and not critisize HOW this good will is being administered. > > Even though I’m an athiest; I’d like to think even if I _were_ a Christian I hope I wouldn’t get offended as something as harmless as “Happy Hanukkah” . > > I mean how is this offensive? Really? Then I suggest we politely ask the fundies to stop using a heartfelt “Happy Holidays” as an excuse to throw a fit. I remind you, **SHAKES** , that the only people who have shown any evidence of being upset by any holiday greeting whatsoever are the Christians who lose their shit when they hear something other than “Merry Christmas”. The atheists, Jews, Muslims, Wiccans, Hindus, Jains, Shintoists, and Doomsday Cult Members are not the ones throwing the annual screamfest. The only people who are taking offense here - and boy, are they ever vocal about it - are the subset of Christians who get pissed that the rest of us aren’t paying enough attention to their holiday. ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-very-shitty-ramakwahannumas-to-you-too/334291/49 "2005-12-06T17:31:44Z")
> [@SHAKES](#): > > Eh, I think my point was we’re all humans just wishing good will upon one another. I think we should be thankfull for that and not critisize HOW this good will is being administered. > > Even though I’m an athiest; I’d like to think even if I _were_ a Christian I hope I wouldn’t get offended as something as harmless as “Happy Hanukkah” . > > I mean how is this offensive? Really? Well…yes. I agree. I wouldn’t be offended by happy Hanukkah. I would welcome it ;j in that exact spirit of good will. But at the same time if I knew someone was Jewish I wouldn’t wish them a Merry Christmas…and I would think a Jewish friend who knew I didn’t celebrate Hanukkah would wish me Merry Christmas. I guess my point was a sincere good wishes should be based on what the other person takes as good wishes. Like I said…well the real good part of the good wishes is that you’re thinking about the other person, innit? And as I said, the ONLY examples of offendedness I’ve come across are (some) Christians who are offended because you are giving them good will and holiday greetings…but not being particular enough about the holiday THEY happen to be celebrating. And yes, I agree with you that that is silly. Oh and SHAKES? Merry Christmas 🙂 . ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-very-shitty-ramakwahannumas-to-you-too/334291/50 "2005-12-06T17:40:46Z")
I don’t agree for one second that the only offense is by Christians who are offended that other holidays are being noted. I do take offense when an exaggerated sanitization of Christmas is done by schools, businesses, or government agencies. It is not necessary to do so. Again, you don’t need to rename a Christmas tree, and songs that explicitly reference Christmas do not need to be rewritten. And it seems that most people agree with me on this point, even on this board that is quite sensitive to intrusions on religious freedom and establishment. So I do have to wonder who the hell we are supposedly protecting? As for those Christians who take offense to being wished a nice holiday, I am reminded of an observation by Ben Franklin. > [@](#): > > How many observe Christ’s birthday! How few, his precepts! O! 'tis easier to keep holidays than commandments. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-very-shitty-ramakwahannumas-to-you-too/334291/51 "2005-12-06T17:50:11Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > (As I write this, a TV ad in the background is using “We wish you a _Happy Holiday_” as a jingle. WTF??? At least write a new song if you don’t like Christmas.) I’ve heard “Happy Holiday(s)” nearly all my life so I’m not offended by it. I’m offended by changing the words to that song because it seems like such a spineless and gutless thing to do. Why not just sing we wish you a merry Christmas? I’d say grow a pair and quit worrying about offending people but they’re not worried about offending me. Though those Chrismahanakwanzaka commercials are cute. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-very-shitty-ramakwahannumas-to-you-too/334291/52 "2005-12-06T17:53:21Z")
> [@MGibson](#): > > I’ve heard “Happy Holiday(s)” nearly all my life so I’m not offended by it. I’m offended by changing the words to that song because it seems like such a spineless and gutless thing to do. Why not just sing we wish you a merry Christmas? I’d say grow a pair and quit worrying about offending people but they’re not worried about offending me. It’s already been explained that they’re actually singing “Happy Honda-Day” and trying to convince you to buy a Honda. I did a double take (except with my ears - is there a word for that?) the first time I saw the commercial, but it’s not a secular thing, it’s a sales thing. I would be as annoyed as anyone else if actual Christmas songs were being rewritten to take the Christmas stuff out of them, but I haven’t seen any evidence that it’s happening, and so I intend to reserve any hysterics for if and when it actually occurs. ---
**Author:** ![BluePitbull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@BluePitbull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BluePitbull)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-very-shitty-ramakwahannumas-to-you-too/334291/53 "2005-12-06T18:09:29Z")
I never understood the controversy over Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays. You would think there are better things to worry about than whether someone said either phrase to you. ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-very-shitty-ramakwahannumas-to-you-too/334291/54 "2005-12-06T18:11:58Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > I don’t agree for one second that the only offense is by Christians who are offended that other holidays are being noted. I do take offense when an exaggerated sanitization of Christmas is done by schools, businesses, or government agencies. It is not necessary to do so. > > . Hmmm…well no, it’s not just the Christians but it does seem to me they are the only ones who’ve gone out of their way to be offended. Beyond that it seems like a bunch of retailers who are looking to be inclusive (and why not, it’s the Jews who have all the money ;j d&r) and schools who are…covering their ass? I agree the watering down is silly. Of COURSE it’s a Christmas tree. Well actually it’s a pagan tree that has very little to do with Christ but it’s been part of the “Christian” tradition for centuries, so it’s a Christmas tree. Get over it. ---
**Author:** ![5que](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/3bc359/32.png) [@5que](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5que)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-very-shitty-ramakwahannumas-to-you-too/334291/55 "2005-12-06T18:22:59Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Happy MY BIRTHDAY! > Erek > (born December 25, 1977) Screw You! It was my birthday first! December 25, **1955**. But keep working to pay my social security, you punk, and turn your hat around the correct way and pull up your pants. No one wants to see your drawers. And get the hell off my lawn. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-very-shitty-ramakwahannumas-to-you-too/334291/56 "2005-12-06T18:30:57Z")
> [@5que](#): > > Screw You! It was my birthday first! December 25, **1955**. Pfft. My great grandmother was born 12/25/92. Beat that! It may be only Christians complaining, but they’re not all fundies. My GF is Christian, but about as anti-fundie as one can get. And she was a bit bothered about Holiday Trees. It’s OK, I straightened her out. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lama\_Pacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Lama\_Pacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lama_Pacos)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-very-shitty-ramakwahannumas-to-you-too/334291/57 "2005-12-06T18:32:40Z")
It seems to me that outrage over the alleged ‘PCization’ of holiday greetings is vastly disproportionate to the amount of offense any actual person has ever taken to any greeting. People don’t say “happy holidays” because they’re afraid of an angry Jewish person stabbing them with a menorah shank, they say it to be _polite_. Which is, uh, kind of nice of them. If you mistakenly say “Merry Christmas” to a celebrator of Kwanzaa or Divali, I guarantee you that 99% of the time, they’ll just pleasantly acknowledge you. ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-very-shitty-ramakwahannumas-to-you-too/334291/58 "2005-12-06T19:14:46Z")
> [@Blackclaw](#): > > I will devour the soul of anyone who doesn’t wish me a Happy Cthulthumas. Happy Festivus, **Blackclaw**! ---
**Author:** ![pbbth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@pbbth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pbbth)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-very-shitty-ramakwahannumas-to-you-too/334291/59 "2005-12-06T20:00:32Z")
Happy Holidays is something that is said by people trying to be nice. How hard is it to accept that their saying “Happy Holidays” is not the equivalent of saying “Baby Jesus can eat a dick!”? Gods forbid that anyone try to be polite in case someone happens to believe something different. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-very-shitty-ramakwahannumas-to-you-too/334291/60 "2005-12-06T20:54:01Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > It’s already been explained that they’re actually singing “Happy Honda-Day” and trying to convince you to buy a Honda. I did a double take (except with my ears - is there a word for that?) the first time I saw the commercial, but it’s not a secular thing, it’s a sales thing. Hmmm…well I suppose I’m mistaken then. I don’t really mind the whole secular CHristmas thing, as I’m an atheist, I just think its silly to remove Merry Christmas ads for fear of offending someone. > [@](#): > > I would be as annoyed as anyone else if actual Christmas songs were being rewritten to take the Christmas stuff out of them, but I haven’t seen any evidence that it’s happening, and so I intend to reserve any hysterics for if and when it actually occurs. I didn’t think I was being hysterical, just voicing an opinion about something I didn’t like which isn’t the same thing, is it? I read an article in the paper about stores putting up “Happy Holiday” signs instead of Christmas or Chaunnuka (I can’t spell it damn it) related messages. Marc [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-very-shitty-ramakwahannumas-to-you-too/334291.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-very-shitty-ramakwahannumas-to-you-too/334291.md?page=4)