# And a very shitty Ramakwahannumas to you too! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 6, 2005, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-very-shitty-ramakwahannumas-to-you-too/334291 "2005-12-06T03:15:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-very-shitty-ramakwahannumas-to-you-too/334291/81 "2005-12-07T16:32:17Z")
> [@5que](#): > > Well, considering tomorrow I get to drink about 2 gallons of Barium and then get pictures taken of my insides from nipple to bunghole, Geez, at our office holiday party, we just have cake. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-very-shitty-ramakwahannumas-to-you-too/334291/82 "2005-12-07T16:45:24Z")
Count me in as an atheist who has absolutely no problem with Merry Christmas. See, I believe there once existed a very great man who we now refer to as Jesus Christ. His dad wasn’t an old guy with a gray beard floating in the sky though. While shopping for CHRISTMAS cards yesterday, I was amazed at how few actually mentioned _gasp_ CHRISTMAS. I picked up about a dozen packages that had everything from “Happy Holidays” to “Festive Season” to, well lots of other drivel. I finally found a “Merry Christmas” pack after 10 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-very-shitty-ramakwahannumas-to-you-too/334291/83 "2005-12-07T20:29:39Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > Funny you should mention that… > [http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/13343016.htm](http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/13343016.htm) I get a feeling they’re the next targets of the more-theological-than-thou crowd. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-very-shitty-ramakwahannumas-to-you-too/334291/84 "2005-12-08T03:05:21Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > While shopping for CHRISTMAS cards yesterday, I was amazed at how few actually mentioned _gasp_ CHRISTMAS. I picked up about a dozen packages that had everything from “Happy Holidays” to “Festive Season” to, well lots of other drivel. I finally found a “Merry Christmas” pack after 10 minutes. There are quite a few boxed sets of cards that have “religion-neutral” greetings, but in a boxed set, it actually makes a lot of sense for many people. Hell, it even made sense for the Bush family. It’s still hardly difficult to find tons of boxes of cards with “Christmas” greetings on them (or inside of them, as many boxed sets have no external text at all). If you buy individual cards, it’s a lot easier to find “Merry Christmas” than “Happy Holidays” on a card, which also makes sense, as you can tailor the individual card selection based on the recipient’s religious celebration (or lack thereof) of choice. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-very-shitty-ramakwahannumas-to-you-too/334291/85 "2005-12-09T19:50:56Z")
Sheesh, history is full of other important people born on Dec 25 also. Now, merry fucking Shane McGowan day, arseholes. Someone get me a whiskey to toast with! ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-very-shitty-ramakwahannumas-to-you-too/334291/86 "2005-12-09T20:03:31Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > **mswas** , I’ll make a deal with you. You see, yesterday was _my_ birthday and all I got for it was a thread in MPSIMS about a man who thought women like me should die, so he killed 14 of them. I promise that on Christmas morning, when I come on-line at the crack of dawn to post, I’ll wish you a Happy Birthday, if you’ll wish me one today. > > As for the churches in Kentucky, I’m now thoroughly confused. I mean, isn’t one supposed to attend church with one’s family? Also, for some families, Christmas morning is when you go to church to celebrate Christmas. (I’m more of a midnight mass type, myself.) > > CJ Oh no! I’m sorry I missed it, I didn’t check this thread in a couple days. I was aware of your birthday though! I was more aware of December 7th on the date than I was of December 9th today! So I was with you in spirit! Anyway, happy birthday, belated. Erek ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-very-shitty-ramakwahannumas-to-you-too/334291/87 "2005-12-09T20:05:23Z")
> [@5que](#): > > Well, considering tomorrow I get to drink about 2 gallons of Barium and then get pictures taken of my insides from nipple to bunghole, I feel like I’ve definitely missed the immortality cut, and instead got in the “funky things happening to your insides” line. > > But don’t let my suffering stop any of you from having a Merry Fawking Christmas. Heh, I’ve had to do that before too! I don’t think it stops me from the Immortality line. I hope whatever funky things are happening to your insides resolve themselves for you. Erek ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-very-shitty-ramakwahannumas-to-you-too/334291/88 "2005-12-09T20:07:05Z")
> [@GargoyleWB](#): > > Sheesh, history is full of other important people born on Dec 25 also. > > Now, merry fucking Shane McGowan day, arseholes. Someone get me a whiskey to toast with! Karl Rove was also born on Christmas. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-very-shitty-ramakwahannumas-to-you-too/334291/89 "2005-12-09T21:13:00Z")
“Happy Holidays” as a shorthand for “enjoy the next month” works for me. When it’s used by a department store, because they don’t want to offend anyone…that’s stupid. What’s _really_ stupid is Holiday Tree. It’s a **Christmas** tree. Is there a Thanksgiving Tree, that is being conflated? Hannukah Tree? Kwanzaa Tree? Saturnalia Tree? No. The only holiday in December celebrated\* with a tree is Christmas. Let’s call things by their proper names. It makes as much sense as calling a menorah a “holiday candelabra”. If we want to debate whether Christmas is religious or a secular holiday; or whether it should be a holiday at all; or why we celebrate religious holidays with secular symbols: that’s fine. Those are worthy topics of debate. But “holiday tree” is weak and transparent attempt to avoid that debate. \*To my Druid & otherwise Pagan friends…you may have a legitimate complaint, that the symbols of your winter solstice celebration have been co-opted by Christianity. First…you may have standing in this case, if your grandfather was a practicing Druid. And anyway…deal with it. That battle was lost 1500 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-very-shitty-ramakwahannumas-to-you-too/334291/90 "2005-12-09T21:38:58Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > “Happy Holidays” as a shorthand for “enjoy the next month” works for me. > When it’s used by a department store, because they don’t want to offend anyone…that’s stupid. Getting your undies in a bunch because a department store is making what they view as a reasonable economic decision - that is, use the sort of lukewarm holiday greeting just in case a few non-Christians get their hackles up - makes zero sense at all, though. A business is not going to be offensive to anyone if they can avoid it (unless it’s like a record store or some other place whose image depends on offending certain crowds of people.) If the business is trying hard not to offend anyone, well, it’s no different than accepting returns without a receipt or any other obsequious little thing stores do to avoid pissing off customers. > [@](#): > > What’s _really_ stupid is Holiday Tree. It’s a **Christmas** tree. Is there a Thanksgiving Tree, that is being conflated? Hannukah Tree? Kwanzaa Tree? Saturnalia Tree? No. The only holiday in December celebrated\* with a tree is Christmas. Let’s call things by their proper names. No real disagreement with this, but at the same time I don’t see why people get so peeved either way. It’s a Christmas tree - no argument - but so what if they call it something else? You know what they mean. I don’t get why this whole season is such an opportunity for so many people to go around being offended. First, there’s a small (probably imaginary) crowd of people being offended by “Merry Christmas”. Then there’s a much larger crowd of people falling over themselves to express how offended they are that this imaginary crowd is offended. Anyone looking for offense during the holiday season needs a good fuck and a glass of whiskey to loosen 'em up. That goes for anyone offended by either “Merry Christmas” or “Happy Holidays”. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-very-shitty-ramakwahannumas-to-you-too/334291/91 "2005-12-09T21:50:21Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > No real disagreement with this, but at the same time I don’t see why people get so peeved either way. It’s a Christmas tree - no argument - but so what if they call it something else? You know what they mean. For me, the issue is about language, and that slippery Orwellian (as in “Politics and the English language”) slope when you substitute euphemisms for the right word. ---
**Author:** ![Nature\_s\_Call](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nature_s_call/32/19006_2.png) [@Nature\_s\_Call](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nature_s_Call)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-very-shitty-ramakwahannumas-to-you-too/334291/92 "2005-12-09T22:09:44Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > Anyone looking for offense during the holiday season needs a good fuck and a glass of whiskey to loosen 'em up. That goes for anyone offended by either “Merry Christmas” or “Happy Holidays”. I’m offended by both. Now where’s my fuck and my whiskey 😃 ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-very-shitty-ramakwahannumas-to-you-too/334291/93 "2005-12-10T10:09:41Z")
> [@GargoyleWB](#): > > Now, merry fucking Shane McGowan day, arseholes. Someone get me a whiskey to toast with! :eek: Shane McGowen was born on Christmas? Interesting. Also Quentin Crisp. Also my friend Gary. Who has a lot in common with Shane McGowen (not so much with Quentin Crisp. Or Karl Rove. Or Jesus.) ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-very-shitty-ramakwahannumas-to-you-too/334291/94 "2005-12-10T10:23:06Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > \*To my Druid & otherwise Pagan friends…you may have a legitimate complaint, that the symbols of your winter solstice celebration have been co-opted by Christianity. First…you may have standing in this case, if your grandfather was a practicing Druid. And anyway…deal with it. That battle was lost 1500 years ago. I wouldn’t go that far. That is, I think pagans (or for that matter people like me who don’t believe in much but do believe the Earth goes around the Sun) can call it a Solstice Tree if they want to. That IS what it represented. And still works as such, the promise of the contination of life in the misdt of the cold and dark. Beyond that though, I agree. It’s a Christmas Tree. Winter Break\* from school makes sense. It’s a break, do with it what you will. But if you put up a Christmas tree you’ve put up a Christmas tree (\*Perhaps we should get into the other area (other than retail) that people have their panties in a bunch about…public school. Where that has been a certain amount of foolishness, but honestly…why not call it Winter Break? It’s only polite.) ---
**Author:** ![5que](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/3bc359/32.png) [@5que](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5que)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2005, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-very-shitty-ramakwahannumas-to-you-too/334291/95 "2005-12-12T15:15:28Z")
> [@betenoir](#): > > Shane McGowen was born on Christmas? Interesting. Also Quentin Crisp. Also my friend Gary. Who has a lot in common with Shane McGowen (not so much with Quentin Crisp. Or Karl Rove. Or Jesus.) And Jimmy Buffett. I think it’s been pretty well established that Jesus wasn’t born on Christmas anyway. Something about the wrong season for the shepards being out in the fields or something like that. Much more intelligent Dopers can fill us in, I’m sure. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-a-very-shitty-ramakwahannumas-to-you-too/334291.md?page=4)