# And again -- who IS Sarah Palin **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 2, 2008, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-again-who-is-sarah-palin/461686 "2008-09-02T15:30:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![bink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/439d5e/32.png) [@bink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bink)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-again-who-is-sarah-palin/461686/361 "2008-09-09T22:55:12Z")
And that smarmy guy on the Weather Channel who turned out to be a big harasser! ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-again-who-is-sarah-palin/461686/362 "2008-09-09T23:24:34Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I don’t believe they’ve flipped. I think more conservative white women might be getting interested, but I don’t believe that 20% actually switched from Obama to McCain. I refuse to believe that that many women are that stupid. I was shocked when I saw it on TV. They said white women. Palin is a lightweight and is actually been a huge boon to McCain. Hopefully she will expose herself in the interview tomorrow. They are finally reporting her flip on the bridge to nowhere. The net got it a week ago. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-again-who-is-sarah-palin/461686/363 "2008-09-09T23:27:27Z")
I don’t know who she is yet, but I’m sure confused about why she’s repeating the “Thanks but no thanks” line referring to the bridge to nowhere. Doesn’t she read the papers or watch the news? Anyone not living in a cave knows the whole story by now. Is she saying it because she’s been told to say it, or because she believes it? It’s making her look stupid and dishonest. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-again-who-is-sarah-palin/461686/364 "2008-09-09T23:33:33Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > I don’t know who she is yet, but I’m sure confused about why she’s repeating the “Thanks but no thanks” line referring to the bridge to nowhere. Doesn’t she read the papers or watch the news? Anyone not living in a cave knows the whole story by now. Is she saying it because she’s been told to say it, or because she believes it? It’s making her look stupid and dishonest. They are spending a lot of time trying to find a usable explanation. It will be used tomorrow in the interview . Can’t wait. A brand spanking new lie . ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-again-who-is-sarah-palin/461686/365 "2008-09-10T03:36:38Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > Oh no, it’s SO not just you! I listen to my instincts about people–sometimes it’s difficult for me since I will get a strong dislike of someone without any valid objective evidence that I should be wary of them, but on many more instances than not my instinctive revulsion towards someone is borne out later on by their behavior. I don’t like to talk about it because it’s just the kind of snap judgement I dislike in others but I can’t stop the way I feel and when I see McCain and Palin I get the same feeling I do when I spot scorpions and rattlesnakes. And Jerusalem crickets, but that’s just a personal phobia. 😛 I realized something tonight. I think John McCain went into this current mode gradually, thinking “It’ll be ok, because once I’m the President, I’ll kick all these shits out and go back to running things morally. But I can’t do that unless I get elected first.” The problem is, I think he has sold his soul to the devil in the person of Karl Rove (who is now apparently pretty openly working on the campaign, as if we didn’t know). Now that he’s in their clutches, I don’t know that he’s going to be able to wrest power back. He’ll do better than W, because W didn’t have the curiosity to search out information on his own, so he basically only knew what he was being told, and W really didn’t particularly want to actually do the job anyway. I’m not clear on how active a president McCain wants to be, but I would assume somewhat more active than W, and obviously not controlled by his VEEP as W was. But assuming he plans to run for re-election, he will be at bare minimum heavily influenced by Rove from the very start, and even if he doesn’t, Rove is a very powerful man with a lot of pull in the conservative base. I don’t think McCain will be able to return to the McCain of 2000, regardless of what his intentions may have been. He went too far, and I think Rove and his minions own him now. Even though McCain may never have been the great straight-shooter that he’s managed to create an image of over these years, I think on the whole he was a basically decent guy. But he has let his ambition win out over everything else. It’s sad, both for him and for the nation. It almost certainly means that if he is elected, Justice will not be reformed, right wing Supreme Court justices will be appointed, our world standing will be finished with the Europe at the very least, and we may well end up militarily involved in Iraq. Wars are usually good political tools, just as fear is a great political tool. Look at **magellan** as a perfect example of the latter. Ten times more auto accident deaths occur per year than died in 9/11 - that means we could have almost one 9/11 a month to equal our deaths from car accidents. More than a hundred times more deaths from heart attack occur per year than died from 9/11 - that’s two 9/11s a week. The events of 9/11 were tragic, horrible, and inexcusable. But as threats to the nation as a whole go, they didn’t amount to much, except in the exact way they were intended to - by provoking draconian over-reactions in response that would cause people to be less satisfied with their own governments. That’s what terrorists do. They know they can’t make the slightest dent in a population, but they can cause terror, and governmental policy reaction to terror. And in this they have been ever so capably assisted by the Republican party, for whom they are almost certainly thanking Allah fasting as the single greatest recruiting tool they have ever had. A war with Radical Islam? Except for the Taliban-run Afghanistan (which we drove out, but still haven’t neutralized after almost seven years), there are a few scrufty groups, even fewer of which have the money to become serious threats to any large number of people. That doesn’t make the tragedy for the people who lose friends and families any less, but to view this as a serious threat to the nation as a whole is absurd. The threat to the nation is in our potential to over-react to it visibly, while not adopting the quiet, less-visible means that truly might be helpful in preventing such things from happening agains - such things as were recommended by the 9/11 commission, from which (please correct me if I’m wrong) either very few or no policies have been put into place. Twenty-five hundred years ago, Plato identified the likely end of democracy to be the use of fear by a tyrant to get elected and then stay in office. Plato was no dummy. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-again-who-is-sarah-palin/461686/366 "2008-09-10T04:19:14Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Obama is not planning a huge tax raise., But do you have any plans for the national debt. Clinton fixed it and the cut taxes and spend repubs screwed it up again. It jeopardizes the financial structure of the nation. Just the interest on the national debt will cripple us for years. Do you think a 10 billion dollar a month war should be a free ride? I voted for and liked Clinton, but he did NOT fix the national debt. It’s not been zero since I don’t know when. As to do I think the war should be free? Of course not, but I don’t believe he’s going to fix it. Do you really think Obama is going to start working on decreasing the national debt with the taxes he’ll be imposing? I don’t. Again, based upon his own words, and those of his supporters, I believe that what he will do is support a lot of socialist type programs which will drive it even higher. His two biggest pet projects are “…health care for everyone…” and “…make minimum wage a living wage…” Those two alone (not even taking into consideration the whole illegal immigration thing) pretty much translate as **tax the holy hell out of most everyone**. The first, if he has his way, will not only put a big tax burden on the American public, it will drastically lower the standard of health care across the board. Don’t you guys hear Canada, Denmark and the UK folks describing what socialized medicine has done for the “quality” of their healthcare systems? The second. For heaven sake! clerking, burger flipping and other minimum wage jobs aren’t intended to support a wife or SO and 14 kids. Those are pre-entry level jobs, they’re the kind of job a person uses to get by while going to college, or training for a higher level position within those industries, while using simple financial decisions like having several roommates so as to be able to spend most of their disposable income on working toward a job that _will_ pay a living wage. And don’t give me that “oh but some people don’t have that ability or aren’t that smart” nonsense either. It’s not an “intelligence thing,” it’s a “take one step at a time, don’t party your life away while young and then wake up at 30 working at McDonalds whining” thing. I’m not smart, endowed with any special talents, or blessed with wealthy parents to send me to great colleges or set me up in their lucrative business (mine struggled financially for most of my childhood, only just starting to do okay in my teens). In fact, I made just about every stupid young person mistake a person can make (choosing not to go to college but instead getting married too young to the wrong guy, and having a child with him). And I worked at many of those minimum wage jobs while trying to keep a family going. Even as a not too bright, flighty, partyingish (not a real word :)) young woman I knew that the reason I wasn’t making it, was that I needed to improve my skills, NOT because some meanies who were already “rich” weren’t sharing and helping me. Again, if someone not too bright, talented, or well educated like myself can make it, _ **anyone** _ can. It’s merely a matter of putting one foot in front of the other, not playing and partying your youth and energy away, and planning. For instance if you work at a minimum wage job and need to attend Votech, or college in order to better your life and earning potential, you choose a living situation with roommates to help share the costs and decrease the amount of time you have to work (more time to go to school, training etc). You don’t party every weekend (and most of your minimum paychecks) away, you DON’T sleep with everything in sight and end up with several kids by different fathers and so on and so forth. It’s a matter of making good (meaning good or productive for you, not good vs. evil) choices vs. making bad (as in choices that will not get you anywhere in life, not “you are bad and evil”) choices. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-again-who-is-sarah-palin/461686/367 "2008-09-10T04:55:36Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > **CanvasShoes,** you’re seriously buying into a line of bullshit if you believe Obama’s tax plan will hurt you. [Here’s the AFL-CIO](http://blog.aflcio.org/2008/09/04/obamas-tax-plan-better-for-working-families-than-mccains) debunking that with a nice little graphic to boot. There’s even a [handy tax estimator](http://alchemytoday.com/obamataxcut/) that allows you to figure up your estimated taxes under the Obama plan–try it,then get back to us on the results. Obama also wants to end the Iraq war, freeing up something like 120 billion dollars a year to use for something useful and worthwhile. The links were from a union labor website and an Obama website. First, I have serious issues with labor unions, particularly the type which are over gov’t employees. What they do is allow inept employees to continue in jobs for which they would get fired in a nano-second in the real world. As to the tax cut from the Obama site. Looks like a campaign promise gimmick to me, why should I believe it? > [@](#): > > The bottom line is that Bush and McCain want to give tax cuts to the wealthiest people in the country, and to corporations. The reason for this is simple–they’re both rich as hell and all their families and friends own corporations. snip… Funny, didn’t you get the $600 bucks Bush just sent out this last Spring? Didn’t Michelle Obama tease we Americans (I think it was on the view), about (paraphrased) “it’s okay that I was in too high a tax bracket to get one, I wouldn’t have been able to buy a pair of earrings anyway”. > [@](#): > > Don’t buy the bullshit, economically speaking John McCain is NOT your friend. Rich people cry about how “unfair” higher tax brackets for them are, but the plain fact is that money is different depending on how much you have. According to the census, folks who make in the top is it 1% or 10%?) actually pay a larger percentage of taxes than all we poor and middle income folks put together. As to “buying the bullshit”. Very few of we voters are political science experts. Most of us (let’s hope), use our life experiences, common sense and gut instinct. All three of mine are telling me that Obama is the one with the not to be trusted line of bullshit. > [@](#): > > Consider the difference ten percent makes for someone who has ten dollars to last the week compared to someone with a hundred, a thousand, ten thousand, etc. When you put it in those terms, you see that the person at the very bottom will be hungry at the end of the week, a couple of people in the middle might be hungry at the end of the week, but at the higher end there’s effectively no difference if you take away ten percent–and who really wants to argue what’s “fair” when you look at it in those terms? Except the truth is that no one in this country has to go hungry. And I say this as a person who has been on the VERY bottom of the barrel, so far as to likely have qualified as homeless. (tried to buy a house, and was underemployed, the deal fell through but we’d already given up our rental in a tight housing market, we ended up staying in a tiny travel trailer with a wood leanto, no water, no electricity etc, until we were finally able to find an apartment). There are so many charities, churches and gov’t programs available, NO one has to go hungry. > [@](#): > > And that’s what society is all about. Saying, y’know, I _could_ buy another boat to go along with the one I already own or another car or a 10000 sf house because my 8000 sf house just isn’t big enough for me–or I could scale back so little that I’ll never even miss it and help out a whole buncha people who aren’t doing as well as I am. Why? And I’m not talking about people who are truly physically or mentally challenged in a way so that they cannot take proper care of themselves. Where do we start and draw the line regarding “people not doing as weel as we are”? Do we start it at “well, these folks are hungry let’s help them”? If so, done and done, there are so many charities and programs around, no one goes hungry. In fact, no one goes uneducated, untrained for good work and so on. That doesn’t mean everyone gets to be filthy rich, but so what? Not everyone gets to be drop dead gorgeous either. Are we talking about making sure EVERYONE has cable, trips to Europe and so on? Why is it a crime, an evil to be spurned, mocked and punished when someone is successful? Most of them earned it, why begrudge them their success? Not to mention, what makes you think that more of them than not don’t ALREADY give to charity and help those less fortunate? I do okay, I finally got to buy a truck and now I can ride the bus by choice, not force. Also, I have Tivo, since I can afford Tivo, and the folks down the street can’t am I the evil successful person who MUST help those less fortunate? Again, where is the line? People who make $100g a year? $200? $500? Who gets listed as selfish and evil and who doesn’t? > [@](#): > > Shit, even if the only motive is to prevent poor people from breaking in and stealing your shit or mugging you every time you go out, it’s still a sensible thing to do. Again, what makes you think they don’t already give? > [@](#): > > And this attitude isn’t just for the rich–I’m on unemployment right now and haven’t had health insurance for years, but when the Oregon Health Plan opened up a lottery to take in 3000 new patients, I didn’t even apply for it, simply because I’m in pretty good health overall and there are thousands out there who need it more than I do. Am I entitled to apply? Absolutely. Do I pay taxes to support the OHP? You bet I do. But is it RIGHT for a healthy person to take up a slot that could be used for someone with chronic life threatening conditions? Not in my book, but that’s why I’m Democrat. No healthcare facility in this country can refuse to give care to a person. Second, I spend several years “going naked” as well. In fact, I broke my leg to the tune of $17,000 bucks when I was uninsured and am still paying it off. As I should be! Why should nurses and doctors get stiffed because I can’t pay? Don’t they count as being good enough to earn enough to eat and have a decent life? Or do they fall into the category of “rich” and therefore their sacrifices and hard work don’t count? There is this amazing thing called “setting up a payment plan” if you are injured or get sick while uninsured. People act as if without socialized medicine, no one without insurance will get medical care. Not true. > [@](#): > > Get beyond the talking points and you’ll notice that the McCain campaign and the Republicans have NO FACTS to back up their assertions that Obama’s going to tax us all into the poorhouse. To put it into the simplest possible terms, they are LYING. I haven’t heard this from any republican talking points, from what I hear on the news it’s always that he has no experience, my concerns and reservations are from what I have read on the linked websites here and from what my young coworkers extoll as his “virtues”. and But don’t take my word on it–can we agree that the [Wall Street Journal](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122049208223297697.html?mod=googlenews_wsj)might be a good source for knowledge regarding money matters? I’m assuming anyone smart enough to be on this board is also smart enough to do some very basic research and not unthinkingly buy into every snotty talking point a losing politician throws out to try to sway the low information voters. [/quote] Well, again as I explained above, I’m not smart. I read the article, but didn’t see any proof to support your position. I did see that the author of the article quoted two conservative sources, but did not link to them, or say where in those websites he’d found such information. > [@](#): > > Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, and Obama’s basic tax plan has been readily available on his website for over a year, it has been praised by many responsible people whose entire job it is to juggle figures and get the right answer, and the Republicans are offering nothing to accurately refute Obama’s claim that his tax plan will help the vast majority of Americans. On his website or from his own mouth during speeches, neither makes it anything more than what he’s SAYING he will do. I neither believe nor trust him. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-again-who-is-sarah-palin/461686/368 "2008-09-10T04:59:45Z")
Here’s what Alaskan Democratic Senator (and Democratic candidate for President this year) Mike Gravel [has to say about her.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpBXYcgXV8M) ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-again-who-is-sarah-palin/461686/369 "2008-09-10T05:09:38Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Fair enough Sam. > > But Obama has been in the thick of it for many, many months now. I’m pretty sure the press and republicans have done their level best to dig out any awfulness they can to pin to him and he’s still here. There are only a few things I’ve seen in the news (Ayers etc), and I’ve never seen Obama give a straight answer on any of them. > [@](#): > > Palin has enjoyed none of that scrutiny and apparently the Reps are trying to keep her away from the press and exactly that scrutiny. Last I heard she refused to make the Sunday chat show circuit. You know, such awful lefty shows like Meet The Press. Please! This board, the internet as a whole, and the media all look like a Jr. High clique’s girlie “burn book” on Sarah Palin. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-again-who-is-sarah-palin/461686/370 "2008-09-10T05:13:29Z")
Gravel was a Democratic Senator, but he moved into the Libertarian camp a while back and did not run as a Democrat this year. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-again-who-is-sarah-palin/461686/371 "2008-09-10T05:19:52Z")
**Shayna** , you never did answer my reply to your post #162 > [@](#): > > Shayna right, because of those skeeeeery “beliefs [of] his wife and other associates”. You know, you blew your claim of non-partisanship the minute you posted that not-so-veiled innuendo based on the ugly and hate-filled partisan email smear campaign. where I answered your accusations with the following: "…your post skates awfully close to calling someone a liar. Your links to one of my posts state how much Alaskans hate the good ole boy network of Republican business as usual, I’m not sure how that is supposed to “prove” my non non-partisanship. The post is regarding why Sarah is so popular here, because she ousted an actual high and mighty, in the pocket of special interests Republican. I don’t remember what she beat him by, but it wasn’t pretty. My support of her over a dyed in the wool pubbie is hardly “proof” I’m not non-partisan. As for the other, Michelle Obama, the pastor, and others have made many very bitter, angry hateful statements. I am basing this upon their own words, not the media’s. How is calling them to task on their poor statements and attitude “hate-filled”? Their attitude and words are wrong. Period. I don’t hate them for being wrong, but it is a serious concern if they really feel the way they say they do, and even more of a concern if Obama also believes the same way. As to hate-filled, if a 20 year advisor and pastor stated such sentiments about others as his preacher did, I’d instantly say "seeya, sorry I’m not going to associate with someone who believes and acts the way you do. **I’m particularly interested in knowing the following…:** When did it become “hate-filled” to call to task those who are proponents of hate? ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-again-who-is-sarah-palin/461686/372 "2008-09-10T07:23:06Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Here’s what Alaskan Democratic Senator (and Democratic candidate for President this year) Mike Gravel [has to say about her.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpBXYcgXV8M) Yeah, well here’s what Alaskan Judge John Suddock had to say about her and her vindictive, hateful family. . . > [@](#): > > . . . An Anchorage judge three years ago warned Sarah Palin and members of her family to stop “disparaging” the reputation of Alaska State Trooper Michael Wooten, who at the time was undergoing a bitter separation and divorce from Palin’s sister Molly. > > . . . > > Court records obtained by NEWSWEEK show that during the course of divorce hearings three years ago, Judge John Suddock heard testimony from an official of the Alaska State Troopers’ union about how Sarah Palin—then a private citizen—and members of her family, including her father and daughter, lodged up to a dozen complaints against Wooten with the state police. The union official told the judge that he had never before been asked to appear as a divorce-case witness, that the union believed family complaints against Wooten were “not job-related,” and that Wooten was being “harassed” by Palin and other family members. > Court documents show that Judge Suddock was disturbed by the alleged attacks by Palin and her family members on Wooten’s behavior and character. “Disparaging will not be tolerated—it is a form of child abuse,” the judge told a settlement hearing in October 2005, according to typed notes of the proceedings. The judge added: “Relatives cannot disparage either. If occurs [sic] the parent needs to set boundaries for their relatives.” > > . . . > > As the divorce case dragged on, the judge’s concern about family “disparagement” appeared to deepen. In an order signed Jan. 31, 2006, which granted Palin’s sister and Wooten a final divorce decree, Judge Suddock continued to express concern about attacks by Palin’s family on Wooten. The judge even threatened to curb Palin’s sister’s child custody rights if family criticism of Wooten continued. > > In monitoring how a joint-custody arrangement worked out, the judge said in his order that he would pay particular attention to problems noted by a “custody investigator,” specifically “the disparagement of the father [Wooten] by the mother [Molly Hackett, Sarah Palin’s sister] and her family members.” > > “It is the mother’s [Hackett’s] responsibility to set boundaries for her relatives and insure [sic] they respect them, and the disparagement by either parent, or their surrogates is emotional child abuse,” Judge Suddock wrote. He added that: \*\*“If the court finds it is necessary due to disparagement in the Mat-Su Valley [the area north of Anchorage where Palin and her extended family live], for the children’s best interests, it [the court] will not hesitate to order custody to the father and a move into Anchorage.” \*\* > > . . . > > [Palin Warned to Stop Disparaging Sister’s Ex - Newsweek](http://www.newsweek.com/id/158140) That vindictive woman damn near cost her own sister custody of her children! ---
**Author:** ![Pashnish\_Ewing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@Pashnish\_Ewing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pashnish_Ewing)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-again-who-is-sarah-palin/461686/373 "2008-09-10T12:03:13Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > There are only a few things I’ve seen in the news (Ayers etc), and I’ve never seen Obama give a straight answer on any of them. Okay, I’ll bite. What have you seen in the news about Ayers, and what is the question you feel deserves a straight answer? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-again-who-is-sarah-palin/461686/374 "2008-09-10T12:14:26Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > On his website or from his own mouth during speeches, neither makes it anything more than what he’s SAYING he will do. I neither believe nor trust him. So here is the rub, eh? Links have been provided to various neutral sources, even conservative sources, that document that Obama’s plan as presented would be a tax cut for the middle and lower income brackets, and a moderate raise on the highest brackets. Bush had predicted that his policies would halve the national debt over 5 years, instead his policies have resorted in a doubling of the national debt - expected to be over $400 billion this year, not even accounting for the cost of the Freddie and Fannie Mac bailouts. (Source - a CNN report while exercising this morning) McCain is promising the same policies but maybe using a bigger hammer. Obama is promising a policy that lowers you taxes and, as I’ve previously tried to make the case, may actually make the bigger difference by actually stimulating the economy. But comparing those policies is silly, 'cause they are just what they are “saying” they will do. The bottom line is that for some reason you do not trust Obama so his actual policies and positions are irrelevant. Around that gut response you will form whatever confabulation you need to in order to justify that choice to yourself. That’s okay, lots of people trust their guts for lots of important decisions, and many will be choosing how to vote that very same way. Just recognize that such is really your bottom line. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-again-who-is-sarah-palin/461686/375 "2008-09-10T12:20:55Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > Yeah, well here’s what Alaskan Judge John Suddock had to say about her and her vindictive, hateful family. . . That vindictive woman damn near cost her own sister custody of her children! And more to the point, was on record as having been harrassing Wooten even _before_ she had the powers of the governors office to abuse. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-again-who-is-sarah-palin/461686/376 "2008-09-10T15:04:38Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > **Shayna** , you never did answer my reply to your post #162 > > where I answered your accusations with the following: > > "…your post skates awfully close to calling someone a liar. Your links to one of my posts state how much Alaskans hate the good ole boy network of Republican business as usual, I’m not sure how that is supposed to “prove” my non non-partisanship. The post is regarding why Sarah is so popular here, because she ousted an actual high and mighty, in the pocket of special interests Republican. I don’t remember what she beat him by, but it wasn’t pretty. My support of her over a dyed in the wool pubbie is hardly “proof” I’m not non-partisan. > > As for the other, Michelle Obama, the pastor, and others have made many very bitter, angry hateful statements. I am basing this upon their own words, not the media’s. How is calling them to task on their poor statements and attitude “hate-filled”? Their attitude and words are wrong. Period. I don’t hate them for being wrong, but it is a serious concern if they really feel the way they say they do, and even more of a concern if Obama also believes the same way. As to hate-filled, if a 20 year advisor and pastor stated such sentiments about others as his preacher did, I’d instantly say "seeya, sorry I’m not going to associate with someone who believes and acts the way you do. > > **I’m particularly interested in knowing the following…:** > > When did it become “hate-filled” to call to task those who are proponents of hate? No one else thus far seems to have fielded this one, so I’ll give it a shot, even though, last time I looked, I wasn’t Shayna. You’re from Alaska. But lots of things, when they come out, are surprises to local press as well as national press. And it’s beginning to look as if Palin’s opposition to government corruption and big spending was mostly because it wasn’t hers. She sure did love earmarks when she could get them for Wasilia or Alaska! (Not that that’s corruption). That’s a nice thing for Alaska, but it’s not the image they’re painting of her. She also [billed the state](http://www.adn.com/front/story/521329.html)some $17K for staying at her own house in Wasilia during the time she was governor - not illegal, but again, not exactly the picture of the staunch fighter of wasteful government spending. Then there seem to be the borderline abuse of power issues. The loyalty-test firings as mayor of Wasilia, and the “Troopergate” business as governor strongly suggest that this woman values personal loyalty to herself over competence to do the job, and that she has quite the vengeful streak. That sounds strangely familiar to me. Then there are the campaign trail lies. Hmm, the “Thanks, but no thanks” on the Bridge to Nowhere. That amounted to deciding after congress said that she didn’t have to put that money into that bridge anymore, that they would use it elsewhere. Kept all the money. Supported it like crazy while running for governor. You should know this, **Canvas**. You live there! The “Sold the plane on e-Bay at a profit” line. Problem is, she tried, but nobody even came up with the minimum bid. She ended up selling [through a broker at a loss](http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-plane5-2008sep05,0,1419959.story). Also, it had being used to transport prisoners more cheaply than commercial flying was to replace it. The chef that her kids didn’t want to lose, but she fired anyway? Sorry - re-assigned, transferred to cook for the Legislative Lounge, and not saving Alaskan taxpayers a penny. I can provide cites for these if you really want, but you can Google 'em all easily enough. They’re out there in virtually all the national papers; this isn’t Joe Blow’s blog. SO I’m having a little trouble with your belief in Sarah Palin as a great government reformer, even though you are from Alaska. Then there’s your claim of hate-filled speeches from Obama supporters. While I’m not about to defend Jeremiah Wright except to say that he comes from a time and place where his attitude was far more understandable, when has Michele Obama _ever_ said anything hate-filled? How can you possibly look at that woman, at those kids, and say in any way “this is the product of a hate-filled family?” For heaven’s sake, run a plausibility check first, ok? ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-again-who-is-sarah-palin/461686/377 "2008-09-10T15:17:15Z")
Who IS Sarah Palin? She’s apparently a talking head, hired to read snarky sound bytes off a teleprompter. It’ll be interesting to see if any additional substance ever surfaces. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-again-who-is-sarah-palin/461686/378 "2008-09-10T15:33:35Z")
Getting back to the smear that Palin is some sort of Christian Right monster just waiting to unleash her values on the nation, you might find it interesting to know that she has an approval rating over 80% in [the least religious state in the country.](http://www.nationalpost.com/news/world/story.html?id=780757) > [@](#): > > Many who settled in places such as Alaska or Oregon came to escape the more authoritarian religious tendencies of their ancestors, so it is not surprising to see a low level of formal religiosity, he added. > > At the same time, there is a great tolerance for other people’s religious views. > > “But notions of Church and state separation are taken very seriously,” Prof. Campbell said. > > “People believe that religion is not going to overtly manifest itself in political life.” > > As Governor, Ms. Palin has not pushed her social views. She made no move, for example, to have her beliefs about gay marriage or abstinence education made public policy. > > “The higher she rose in Alaska the more she suppressed her social conservative agenda,” said Steve Haycox, a professor of history at the University of Alaska, Anchorage. > > “Social conser vat ism doesn’t play well here but people expect the rhetoric.” > > Prof. Haycox does not think Ms. Palin would bring her social conservative agenda to the White House, even if she should find herself president. > > “I would expect her with her extraordinary political instincts to function pragmatically,” he said. > > “She will do what will work and won’t let the religious rhetoric get in the way.” As I’ve said before, it’s becoming clearer and clearer that Palin is more Ron Paul than Pat Buchanan. All are pro-life, but only one of them is running around squawking about changing the culture, and it’s not Palin or Paul." And if you want to see Palin interviewed before she was picked, check out this interview with [MTV](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MV9rW25bT5o). Her view on Republicans and Democrats both? A pox on both their houses. Her comment on Ron Paul? “Cool! Very cool.” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-again-who-is-sarah-palin/461686/379 "2008-09-10T15:39:20Z")
> [@](#): > > …It’ll be interesting to see if any additional substance ever surfaces… Substance? \*Substance? \* Where the hell you from, with this “substance” crap? Oh, right…_California!_ Out here in the heartland, where the \*real \*Americans live, we don’t need no _steenking_ substance! ---
**Author:** ![vison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/e47774/32.png) [@vison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vison)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-again-who-is-sarah-palin/461686/380 "2008-09-10T16:56:59Z")
Here’s an interesting tidbit I just learned. Lifelong NRA member and hunter Palin has a PETA member as a speech writer. Matthew Scully is one of the country’s most vociferous gun grabbers. He wrote _Dominion_, hailed by PETA as their 2003 Book of the Year. He’s an animal rights and vegan activist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-again-who-is-sarah-palin/461686.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-again-who-is-sarah-palin/461686.md?page=20)