# And baby makes 21...Duggars have 19th baby **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 11, 2009, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-baby-makes-21-duggars-have-19th-baby/520891 "2009-12-11T18:43:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2009, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-baby-makes-21-duggars-have-19th-baby/520891/61 "2009-12-13T14:43:30Z")
> [@BigBertha](#): > > Heck, i knew two girls who had babies at age 14, so they could easily had another at the same time their children were having one too and not be too old. This is true; you don’t even have to be 14 when you have your first one. My MIL had her first at 19, and her last at 42 (gave birth to six live children, five miscarriages). She had her first grandchild before she had her last child. > [@](#): > > Back before the pill, women had as many babies as they had. Nowadays, we are thankful for modern medicine. Even then, women knew how to say ‘no’. Plus, they tended to breastfeed for a good long time, which helped. Apparently, Michelle Duggar thinks telling your husband “Not tonight, honey, I’ve got an already-dealing-with-19-kids-induced-headache” is not very ‘Christian’ or something. Plus, I think at this point, they’ve become somewhat addicted to the publicity/celebrity angle. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2009, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-baby-makes-21-duggars-have-19th-baby/520891/62 "2009-12-13T15:27:48Z")
> [@BigBertha](#): > > Heck, i knew two girls who had babies at age 14, so they could easily had another at the same time their children were having one too and not be too old. > [@norinew](#): > > This is true; you don’t even have to be 14 when you have your first one. My MIL had her first at 19, and her last at 42 (gave birth to six live children, five miscarriages). You don’t even have to be 19. My maternal great-grandmother married at 24. She had a dozen children (pre-Pill era farm family) and her youngest two were younger than her first three grandchildren. My grandmother’s youngest sibling was 13 months (to the day) older than my mother, who was my grandmother’s youngest (and last) child. > [@](#): > > Apparently, Michelle Duggar thinks telling your husband “Not tonight, honey, I’ve got an already-dealing-with-19-kids-induced-headache” is not very ‘Christian’ or something. Quiverfull wives are fully submitted to their husbands. I don’t know if it’s down to the level that they don’t even say no to individual sex acts, but the husbands plan when the family should be expanded, period. It’s not up to the wives at all. > [@](#): > > Plus, I think at this point, they’ve become somewhat addicted to the publicity/celebrity angle. I think it’s more that they know that they’re the poster children for Quiverfull and they see themselves as having a mission from God to spread the Quiverfull message to as many people as possible, and how better to do that than with a television program? ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2009, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-baby-makes-21-duggars-have-19th-baby/520891/63 "2009-12-13T16:42:32Z")
Up thread a poster noted she has had four C-sections, assuming they were all medically necessary and if this were the “old days” Mrs, Duggar would have been most likely already dead. ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2009, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-baby-makes-21-duggars-have-19th-baby/520891/64 "2009-12-13T17:40:13Z")
They have said they are self supporting, so I guess it’s OK for them to have as many kids as they want. I’m not keen on the idea of having the older kids be responsible for the younger ones, but everyone raises their family in the way they see fit. This newest preemie will qualify for Medicaid based of birth weight. Most states assume the costs for babies born under 2 pounds. My 23 weeker (now 12) cost about $740,000.00 and required many years of support services. Those micropreemies very frequently have long term medical needs. I’m suprised to hear she was delivered for gall bladder problems. I work exclusively with hugh-risk and problem pregnancies and we would not deliver for gallbladder. I suspect something else was going on- Pregnancy Induced Hypertension or Preterm Labor. ---
**Author:** ![LadyJane84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@LadyJane84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LadyJane84)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2009, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-baby-makes-21-duggars-have-19th-baby/520891/65 "2009-12-13T19:25:52Z")
> [@Ca3799](#): > > I’m suprised to hear she was delivered for gall bladder problems. I work exclusively with hugh-risk and problem pregnancies and we would not deliver for gallbladder. I suspect something else was going on- Pregnancy Induced Hypertension or Preterm Labor. A later report said that she was delivered for Pre-Eclampsia. [http://www.examiner.com/x-24089-Atlanta-Reality--Talk-Show-TV-Examiner~y2009m12d11-Duggar-family-New-challenges-with-baby-19-born-three-months-early](http://www.examiner.com/x-24089-Atlanta-Reality--Talk-Show-TV-Examiner~y2009m12d11-Duggar-family-New-challenges-with-baby-19-born-three-months-early) ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2009, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-baby-makes-21-duggars-have-19th-baby/520891/66 "2009-12-13T19:31:46Z")
This quote > [@](#): > > Michelle Duggar has given birth, whether naturally or by c-section, to of all of her previous 18 children made me scratch my head. Who else would have given birth to her children? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![NoiseBomb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/49beb7/32.png) [@NoiseBomb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoiseBomb)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2009, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-baby-makes-21-duggars-have-19th-baby/520891/67 "2009-12-13T19:45:07Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > This quote > > made me scratch my head. Who else would have given birth to her children? Maybe it’s a somewhat awkward way of saying they don’t have any adopted or foster children, and none were from a prior relationship of her husband? ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2009, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-baby-makes-21-duggars-have-19th-baby/520891/68 "2009-12-13T21:20:25Z")
They could have said, “This is Michelle’s 19th child by her husband, Bob.” ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-baby-makes-21-duggars-have-19th-baby/520891/69 "2009-12-14T14:56:19Z")
“Jim Bob” > [@tumbleddown](#): > > I think it’s more that they know that they’re the poster children for Quiverfull and they see themselves as having a mission from God to spread the Quiverfull message to as many people as possible, and how better to do that than with a television program? I’ve never felt like they proselytize – they say why they do what they do, what beliefs inform their actions, and that they don’t judge what other people do. Best was when the guys were running the 5K in long pants (none of the family show their upper legs), with Michelle and the girls in long dresses cheering them on, and then meet Brandy Chastain in skimpy runner’s gear. Great contrast of cultures! ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-baby-makes-21-duggars-have-19th-baby/520891/70 "2009-12-14T15:46:51Z")
They are “self supporting” but… They CHOOSE to have anywhere from 5 to 10 times as many kids as the large majority of people do. And, this cost the insurance company much money, way more than typical. And, if their latest child (or any of the previous ones did) requires massive medical care paid by the either the insurance or government aid. Which really means the REST of us are paying for their choices. Then, do they go to public schools ? If so, “We” are paying for that too. Its the social equivalent of being an absolute pig at an all you can eat buffet by either massively overeating or grabbing all the expensive items for yourself as soon as they are put out. Sure, it might technically be allowed, but you are being selfish and it is costing others a great deal of money for your choices. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-baby-makes-21-duggars-have-19th-baby/520891/71 "2009-12-14T16:22:18Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > Quiverfull wives are fully submitted to their husbands. I don’t know if it’s down to the level that they don’t even say no to individual sex acts, but the husbands plan when the family should be expanded, period. It’s not up to the wives at all. > > I think it’s more that they know that they’re the poster children for Quiverfull and they see themselves as having a mission from God to spread the Quiverfull message to as many people as possible, and how better to do that than with a television program? I’ve actually seen Jim Bob on TV saying that he’s always left it up to Michelle, and she chimed in that she thought it would be wonderful if God chose to give them more children. But I agree that this is different from the attitude of the overall movement. And the wedding vows that Josh and his wife said made me want to puke. (She had to “accept her husband’s authority in her life” Ick!) Does anyone know how much money families like the Duggars and Jon & Kate get for these shows? I’m very curious about that. . . ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-baby-makes-21-duggars-have-19th-baby/520891/72 "2009-12-14T17:00:23Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > They are “self supporting” but… > > They CHOOSE to have anywhere from 5 to 10 times as many kids as the large majority of people do. > > And, this cost the insurance company much money, way more than typical. And, if their latest child (or any of the previous ones did) requires massive medical care paid by the either the insurance or government aid. Which really means the REST of us are paying for their choices. Then, do they go to public schools ? If so, “We” are paying for that too. > > Its the social equivalent of being an absolute pig at an all you can eat buffet by either massively overeating or grabbing all the expensive items for yourself as soon as they are put out. Sure, it might technically be allowed, but you are being selfish and it is costing others a great deal of money for your choices. So where’s the line and who gets to draw it? Can we go up to someone driving a Hummer and say they’re selfish and wasteful because they put more wear and tear on the highways(which we all pay for) than the average person? How about going up to someone who likes to fish and telling them they’re like the pigs at the Chinese place because fishing line is made out of fossil fuels and since most people don’t buy fishing line they’re consuming more fossil fuels than someone who doesn’t fish does. What about someone who likes a wood burning fireplace around the holidays? Do they get the selfish and gluttonous lecture because they aren’t using the bare minimum of combustible material for their heat, and do they really even need so much heat? My kids have to breathe the air their smoke is clogging up you know. Don’t get me started on those assholes who only buy organic food. Do you have any idea how many state bureaucrats(whose salary I pay) are required to administrate the paperwork needed to certify something as “organic” through the supply chain to the local supermarket? Bastards drive my taxes through the roof! The reality is that no man is an island, and we all step on each others toes in some ways. I’m personally far more concerned about the idea we should crack down on the freedoms of others to follow their hearts than I am by paying a nearly infinitesimal bit more to enable them. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-baby-makes-21-duggars-have-19th-baby/520891/73 "2009-12-14T17:06:09Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > So where’s the line and who gets to draw it? > The reality is that no man is an island, and we all step on each others toes in some ways. I’m personally far more concerned about the idea we should crack down on the freedoms of others to follow their hearts than I am by paying a nearly infinitesimal bit more to enable them. > > Enjoy, > Steven Ahh…the old since we don’t know EXACTLY where to draw the line we can’t draw any even fuzzy lines routine. I am not going to throw you in jail for being a pig at the buffet, but I sure as hell am going to be giving you dirty looks and thinking about changing the rules. Religion is a choice. Sex is choice. Birth control is a choice. Having kids is a choice. And no, I did not enjoy your post. In fact, it wasnt even thought provoking. Blll ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-baby-makes-21-duggars-have-19th-baby/520891/74 "2009-12-14T17:54:53Z")
> [@LadyJane84](#): > > Actually according to the Catholic Church marital sex has two purposes: uniting the couple in intimacy through pleasure and procreation. Therefore it’s perfectly permissible to have sex even when there is no chance of conception. As long as the lack of conception is through natural means. Catholics beileve that God gave women a time when they can’t conceive for a reason and its allowable to use that fact for the benefit of a woman’s health and marriage. In fact, it’s considered working with God’s plan, not against it. Yep, there are two purposes. But the key is you have to be open to the idea of conception. That’s why you can’t say, “well, we’re fulfilling the ‘uniting in intimacy’ purpose right now and don’t want to fulfill the other purpose, so I’m on the pill right now”. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-baby-makes-21-duggars-have-19th-baby/520891/75 "2009-12-14T18:06:04Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Religion is a choice. Sex is choice. Birth control is a choice. Having kids is a choice. So does this mean that when people- hell, let’s be specific and say Dopers- who have repeated miscarriages and find out in utero that new baby has a horrible ailment but choose to not abort anyway, I can rip them apart for being drains on the system? Just checking, because this comes up every so often here and I’m trying to understand what’s ok. For what it’s worth, my opinion is this: I am prochoice. That means that even though I wouldn’t choose to forgo birth control, I can’t judge another woman for choosing that option. Choice is just that. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-baby-makes-21-duggars-have-19th-baby/520891/76 "2009-12-14T18:11:44Z")
I believe the Duggars homeschool their children, so there is no “drain” on resources there. Plus, they also contribute heavily…every time they go grocery shopping, every time they go shoe shopping, every time they buy material to make clothes…it’s not like they don’t give to society monetarily as well. ---
**Author:** ![festiva76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e8cbc/32.png) [@festiva76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/festiva76)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-baby-makes-21-duggars-have-19th-baby/520891/77 "2009-12-14T18:30:37Z")
Maybe that will help her realize the joys of birth control pills and free love. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Bird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Little\_Bird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Bird)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-baby-makes-21-duggars-have-19th-baby/520891/78 "2009-12-14T18:57:03Z")
I am pro-choice as well, and would never try to limit another’s choices in reproduction. That being said, I find people having litters of children just as disgusting, repugnant, immoral and “unnatural” as pro-lifers find birth control and abortion. Especially people who chose to go against “god’s will” to have fertility treatments but then won’t go against the very same “god’s will” to selectively abort their litters to give one or two a better chance. (I’m looking at you Kenny and Bobbi [McCaughey](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCaughey_septuplets)) Regardless of the Duggars’ ability to pay for the children, they certainly don’t have time to be proper parents and forcing the older siblings to be parents rather than kids themselves is just awful. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-baby-makes-21-duggars-have-19th-baby/520891/79 "2009-12-14T19:00:00Z")
> [@Little\_Bird](#): > > Especially people who chose to go against “god’s will” to have fertility treatments but then won’t go against the very same “god’s will” to selectively abort their litters to give one or two a better chance. (I’m looking at you Kenny and Bobbi [McCaughey](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCaughey_septuplets)) My understanding is that the Duggars have said they wouldn’t use medicine to create a baby, as that is just as against their natural family planning as birth control. It seems like a lot of folks in this thread are airing their grievances against a lot of fundie hypocrisy that bugs them, regardless of whether or not it applies to the Duggars. Wide brush and all that jazz. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Bird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Little\_Bird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Bird)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-baby-makes-21-duggars-have-19th-baby/520891/80 "2009-12-14T19:17:46Z")
My brush is wide and my paint is opaque and I’ll use it on anyone who chooses to reproduce at an unsustainable rate, regardless of religion. I fully plan to stop at 2 myself, and if I need more for whatever reason (_cough_working in the salt mines_cough_) I’ll adopt. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-baby-makes-21-duggars-have-19th-baby/520891.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-baby-makes-21-duggars-have-19th-baby/520891.md?page=5)