# And from the " Slut-Shaming Is The Way We Live, Deep In The Heart of Texas " Department... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 18, 2018, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-from-the-slut-shaming-is-the-way-we-live-deep-in-the-heart-of-texas-department/819817 "2018-08-18T01:00:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-from-the-slut-shaming-is-the-way-we-live-deep-in-the-heart-of-texas-department/819817/81 "2018-08-20T07:07:49Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > When a Middle School in Houston’s public school district sees fit to [adorn the walls with this missive aimed squarely at the girls in the building](https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/misogynistic-quote-above-hisd-middle-school-lockers-goes-viral/285-585244043), you know just how things go down there. Would it be possible to have a link towards another article? This one doesn’t work for me (probably because I’m in Europe). ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-from-the-slut-shaming-is-the-way-we-live-deep-in-the-heart-of-texas-department/819817/82 "2018-08-20T07:09:45Z")
Man, say what you will about the stupidity of **octopus** (who really should be on my ignore list) or the nonsensical ramblings of **Drunky Smurf** (who already is), I’ll take that shit over this kind of misogynistic victim-blaming bullshit. Hey **Starving Fucknugget** , you do realize that this is exactly the attitude we’re condemning in this thread, right? That’s not how this works. that’s not how any of this works. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-from-the-slut-shaming-is-the-way-we-live-deep-in-the-heart-of-texas-department/819817/83 "2018-08-20T07:09:57Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > Oh here we fucking go, AGAIN. > > :: too many rolleyes to fit :: Indeed. If **Starving Artist** ever has anything worthwhile to add to a discussion one can count on it being expressed more cogently elsewhere. Since it has thus been established that his participation here is superfluous, you would be doing us all a favor if you avoided directly quoting him in your rebuttals of his nonsense. Especially me. That is all (until the _next_ time I have to point these facts out :dubious:). ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-from-the-slut-shaming-is-the-way-we-live-deep-in-the-heart-of-texas-department/819817/84 "2018-08-20T07:13:48Z")
[quote=“Starving\_Artist, post:79, topic:819817”] From [this thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=860738): > [@](#): > > [Emphasis mine] > > My guess is that it’s because Streep conducts herself like a lady. > > It’s also my guess that, in trying to encourage middle school girls to behave in ladylike ways, more gentlemanly behavior will result from their male classmates, thereby sparing these young girls the crass, boorish and sometimes assholish behavior guys of that age are known to engage in if left to their own devices. > > I’ll guarantee you that the young Jackie Kennedy, Meryl Streep, Ivanka Trump and even Sydney Biddle Barrows were treated much better both in school and later in life by the men they’ve encountered than have been the likes of Khloe Kardashian, Amy Schumer and Kathy Griffin. > > The intent of the words in that locker room was to show the girls a way to protect themselves and to be treated better. The idea they were intended to ‘slut-shame’ the girls, or to make them ‘responsible’ for turning the boys into gentlemen, is utterly ridiculous. Both you and **AK84** are seriously fucked up in the head. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-from-the-slut-shaming-is-the-way-we-live-deep-in-the-heart-of-texas-department/819817/85 "2018-08-20T07:16:23Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Indeed. If **Starving Artist** ever has anything worthwhile to add to a discussion one can count on it being expressed more cogently elsewhere. Since it has thus been established that his participation here is superfluous, you would be doing us all a favor if you avoided directly quoting him in your rebuttals of his nonsense. > > Especially me. > > That is all (until the _next_ time I have to point these facts out :dubious:). Oh mea-fucken-culpa then. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-from-the-slut-shaming-is-the-way-we-live-deep-in-the-heart-of-texas-department/819817/86 "2018-08-20T07:20:42Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Would it be possible to have a link towards another article? This one doesn’t work for me (probably because I’m in Europe). Try this one? [https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/misogynistic-quote-above-hisd-middle-school-lockers-goes-viral/285-585244043](https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/misogynistic-quote-above-hisd-middle-school-lockers-goes-viral/285-585244043) ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-from-the-slut-shaming-is-the-way-we-live-deep-in-the-heart-of-texas-department/819817/87 "2018-08-20T07:26:39Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > [Emphasis mine] > > My guess is that it’s because Streep conducts herself like a lady. > > It’s also my guess that, in trying to encourage middle school girls to behave in ladylike ways, more gentlemanly behavior will result from their male classmates, thereby sparing these young girls the crass, boorish and sometimes assholish behavior guys of that age are known to engage in if left to their own devices. > > I’ll guarantee you that the young Jackie Kennedy, Meryl Streep, Ivanka Trump and even Sydney Biddle Barrows were treated much better both in school and later in life by the men they’ve encountered than have been the likes of Khloe Kardashian, Amy Schumer and Kathy Griffin. > > The intent of the words in that locker room was to show the girls a way to protect themselves and to be treated better. The idea they were intended to ‘slut-shame’ the girls, or to make them ‘responsible’ for turning the boys into gentlemen, is utterly ridiculous. I’d say this was utter shit, but the turds I just dropped in the toilet are both more intelligent and smell better than this drivel. There have been threads right here on the Dope that have pointed out women are harassed, catcalled, and groped no matter what they’re wearing, where they are, or what they’re doing. This is simply attempting to blame women/girls for the actions of men/boys. It’s horseshit, and so are you. But please, continue to defend the words of a madam co-opted for young teenage girls. A more appropriate “quote” would be posted in the boys’ locker room: “No means no.” I’d tell you to sit on a cactus, but the cactus doesn’t deserve your shit either. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-from-the-slut-shaming-is-the-way-we-live-deep-in-the-heart-of-texas-department/819817/88 "2018-08-20T07:40:04Z")
OK…let me see if I can work out the SA ‘logic’. P1: If you are a lady, you won’t be assaulted or raped. P2: I have been assaulted or raped. C: You ain’t no lady. Is that it?? Or P1: Only bad girls are assaulted and raped. P2: I am not a ‘bad’ girl, but I was raped. C: Well, you weren’t actually raped, you asked for it. Is that it?? FFS…how many times do we have to rehash the same old shit year after fucken year to the same deaf old codgers who just crank up the record-player volume on old Dean Martin vinyls? ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-from-the-slut-shaming-is-the-way-we-live-deep-in-the-heart-of-texas-department/819817/89 "2018-08-20T08:10:17Z")
And now I’m on my virtual soapbox: Throughout history and right up until today, it didn’t matter what you wore, how you spoke, how virginal (or not) you were, how ladylike (or not) you were, whether you fluttered your eyelashes demurely or whether you cracked a few shins playing hockey. After the age of 15, you were 17% (Aus stats, 2012) likely to be a victim of some sort of sexual assault. The one thing that unites victims of female sexual assault is…go on, guess!! So just maybe the thing that unites perpetrators of female sexual assault is…go on, guess!! Maybe instead of focusing upon teaching those ‘bad’ girls to stop tempting the innocent boys into raping them, maybe just start teaching the boys? Obviously scapegoating the wimmins all these years hasn’t helped anything…maybe the message is being directed to the wrong mob. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-from-the-slut-shaming-is-the-way-we-live-deep-in-the-heart-of-texas-department/819817/90 "2018-08-20T09:56:03Z")
And once again, unsurprisingly, Starving’s view is …’If I could turn back time…’ Do let us know when you get they Way Back machine finished. How seriously misadjusted does one have to be, to spend all your energy explaining to everyone why we need to turn back time. An eight year old would know its both ridiculous and sad that a grown adult seriously keeps proposing such nonsense. Don’t even bother trying to explain shit to him, it’s utterly pointless. He’s stuck in time, ain’t nothing gonna get through that. Once people set about fighting the present, in an attempt to return to another time, they’re kinda lost for good, Y’know? There are those who see. There are those who, when shown, can see. And there are those who cannot see. In this regard SA is a blind man. Save your breath. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-from-the-slut-shaming-is-the-way-we-live-deep-in-the-heart-of-texas-department/819817/91 "2018-08-20T10:01:48Z")
Every post since mine has been nothing but over the top, hysterical nonsense. Women who exhibit ladylike behavior have a much better time of it as they pass through life, as do men who exhibit gentlemanly behavior. They are treated with more respect, more deference, and more friendliness as they go about their business and through their days than do those who lack these qualities. Ladylike behavior is not and has never been intended to be a guarantee against sexual assault, but hopefully even you people can see that if a person is treated better by most people to begin with, it lessens the chances that one of them will assault her. But the purpose of ladylike behavior is not to guarantee against sexual assault, just like the purpose of gentlemanly behavior is not to guarantee against committing sexual assault. The purpose of both is to be mannerly and treat others well, and is usually accompanied by the expectation of getting the same in return. And generally such people present a confident, composed and considerate demeanor which projects both self-respect and a short leash when it comes to rude or abusive behavior from others. Ladylike women (and gentlemanly men) benefit from these qualities in thousands of ways as they go through life. It’s not all about sex, or even a little bit about sex. It’s about living life in a way that commands respect from those around you. Which of these women do you think is going to find herself more likely to become the victim of a sexual assault by a stranger on the street or in a bar, or to be abused, assaulted or treated badly by the men they date or marry: Ivanka Trump or Khloe Kardashian? Meryl Streep or Kathy Griffin? Sydney Biddle Barrows or Amy Schumer? If any of you would like to argue that being a crude, crass, foul-mouthed skank given to acting on unthinking impulse (which seems to be the idea, given your explosive and ridiculous reactions to the notion that anyone should _shudder_ be _ladylike_) is a better barrier to sexual abuse , I’d certainly like to hear how you think such an approach would be more effective. But as for me and everyone else in the country who think you people are being ridiculous, the issue isn’t about sex to begin with. It’s about being treated well in all aspects of your life, and the fact is that women who are ladylike and men who are gentlemanly not only get treated better as they go through life but they’re more enjoyable to be around also. Truly, it’s win-win for those who can manage to develop some class, and our schools ought to be promoting it rather than giving in to the Kool-Aid gang and apologizing for having mentioned it in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![blob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blob/32/489_2.png) [@blob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blob)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-from-the-slut-shaming-is-the-way-we-live-deep-in-the-heart-of-texas-department/819817/92 "2018-08-20T10:08:11Z")
@ Starving Artist, what on earth are you talking about? Where did you get those bizarre ideas? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-from-the-slut-shaming-is-the-way-we-live-deep-in-the-heart-of-texas-department/819817/93 "2018-08-20T10:15:59Z")
Christ what an asshole. Didn’t we recently have some kind of kerfluffle about how exactly these misogynistic ideas cause women to not want to stick around? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-from-the-slut-shaming-is-the-way-we-live-deep-in-the-heart-of-texas-department/819817/94 "2018-08-20T10:21:19Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > And once again, unsurprisingly, Starving’s view is …’If I could turn back time…’ > > Do let us know when you get they Way Back machine finished. > > How seriously misadjusted does one have to be, to spend all your energy explaining to everyone why we need to turn back time. An eight year old would know its both ridiculous and sad that a grown adult seriously keeps proposing such nonsense. > > Don’t even bother trying to explain shit to him, it’s utterly pointless. He’s stuck in time, ain’t nothing gonna get through that. Once people set about fighting the present, in an attempt to return to another time, they’re kinda lost for good, Y’know? > > There are those who see. There are those who, when shown, can see. And there are those who cannot see. In this regard SA is a blind man. Save your breath. Actually, I’m happy to report that much of the nuttier aspects of the very worthwhile feminists movement seem to be lost now on the younger generation. There are quite a few young women where I work and I’ve begun making it a practice to walk them to their cars if they’re leaving work when it’s dark. At first this seems odd to them, because feminism has killed chivalry, but they sort of embarrassedly go along with it in the beginning. Then before long, when it’s time for them to leave, they start dallying around, waiting to get my attention to let me know they’re leaving.Then after a while they say things like, “OMG, you weren’t here when I left last night and I had to walk to my car by myself!” I’m also quick to help out if they’re struggling with something heavy, and they act surprised when I do that too. Occasionally one of them will say something like, “I wish more guys were like you”, and then they find themselves at a loss for words when I point out that it was feminists who are responsible for the fact that more guys aren’t. Another old school thing I do is I don’t curse or talk dirty in front of women. Most of them, in keeping with today’s America, can’t talk without ‘fuck’ and ‘shit’ peppering every sentence, but still I don’t do it. Then from time to time when someone happens to notice and they bring it up, I simply say that I’m old school and don’t talk that way in front of women, that it’s a ‘respect thing’. The mile-wide smiles this brings tells me these women enjoy being treated respectfully because they’re women. And guess what? Just like ladylike behavior brings out gentlemanly behavior in men, my respect for them by not cursing in front of them has largely led them to start cleaning up their language in front of me. So hopefully some of the more imbecilic aspects of the women’s movement have blown over and now with the younger generation men can get back to doing nice and thoughtful things for women without being glared at or called sexist pigs for their trouble. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-from-the-slut-shaming-is-the-way-we-live-deep-in-the-heart-of-texas-department/819817/95 "2018-08-20T10:27:03Z")
Imagine what this message sends to every shy, timid girl who’s been groped in that school. It’s YOUR fault! Because if you make them feel it’s THEIR fault, they won’t report and…BINGO…groping has clearly been reduced. Ditto rape! The SA solution is always…let’s go back in time! ---
**Author:** ![blob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blob/32/489_2.png) [@blob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blob)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-from-the-slut-shaming-is-the-way-we-live-deep-in-the-heart-of-texas-department/819817/96 "2018-08-20T10:34:51Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > The mile-wide smiles this brings tells me What’s really happening is that they are laughing at you, mate. You poor old thing. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-from-the-slut-shaming-is-the-way-we-live-deep-in-the-heart-of-texas-department/819817/97 "2018-08-20T10:43:04Z")
> [@Sloe\_Moe](#): > > I was raised in an alien culture because that sounds like something I’ll tell my daughter if she’s not on the straight path. Not an alien culture, sadly. Many of us were raised in it, we’ve just realised how stupid and dangerous it is. Telling your daughter shit like that won’t stop bad things from happening to her, it’ll just increase the humiliation when it happens and likely mean she’ll not want to tell anyone or get help. Because if she’d just acted like more of a lady, the criminal wouldn’t have targeted her, right? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-from-the-slut-shaming-is-the-way-we-live-deep-in-the-heart-of-texas-department/819817/98 "2018-08-20T10:47:00Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > Which of these women do you think is going to find herself more likely to become the victim of a sexual assault by a stranger on the street or in a bar, or to be abused, assaulted or treated badly by the men they date or marry: > > Ivanka Trump or Khloe Kardashian? > > Meryl Streep or Kathy Griffin? > > Sydney Biddle Barrows or Amy Schumer? Are you under the impression that Meryl Streep hasn’t been a victim of sexual assault? Because [according to her, she has](https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/meryl-streep-talks-harvey-weinstein-harassment-experiences/story?id=52115019). And I’m somewhat baffled why you think that a former escort service worker and professional pimp like Barrows would be a less likely target of sexual harassment than a law-abiding mainstream entertainment celebrity like Schumer. > [@Starving Artist](#): > > Women who exhibit ladylike behavior have a much better time of it as they pass through life […] > > There are quite a few young women where I work and I’ve begun making it a practice to walk them to their cars if they’re leaving work when it’s dark. […] they sort of embarrassedly go along with it in the beginning. Then before long, when it’s time for them to leave, they start dallying around, waiting to get my attention to let me know they’re leaving.Then after a while they say things like, “OMG, you weren’t here when I left last night and I had to walk to my car by myself!” :dubious: ISTM that buying into a worldview in which it’s assumed to be too risky or scary for ablebodied women to walk to their own cars at their own workplace after sunset does not actually constitute “having a much better time of it as they pass through life”. Ostentatious acts of so-called chivalry that require women to depend on men’s offering them (real or imaginary) protection are not an adequate substitute for women’s having genuine autonomy and freedom. Perhaps you could try instead supervising the behavior of men around your workplace after dark so that they don’t assault women, rather than encouraging the women to feel that **they’re** the ones who need supervision and restricted movement for the sake of their safety. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-from-the-slut-shaming-is-the-way-we-live-deep-in-the-heart-of-texas-department/819817/99 "2018-08-20T10:55:06Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Imagine what this message sends to every shy, timid girl who’s been groped in that school. It’s YOUR fault! > > Because if you make them feel it’s THEIR fault, they won’t report and…BINGO…groping has clearly been reduced. > > Ditto rape! The SA solution is always…let’s go back in time! I have to leave and won’t be able to answer until probably tomorrow night, but I would absolutely love to know just how you make the leap that a statement encouraging girls to be ladylike sends a message to shy, timid girls that sexual abuse is their fault. Same with rape. As I said upthread, to me there’s nothing about that statement above the girls’ lockers that has anything to do with sex at all, so I’d like to know just how it is that you people so reflexively manage to connect it up as making sexual assault the girls’ fault. Because I can tell you that to most of the conservatives in this country you people sound ridiculous and that you’re just making shit up out of thin air simply because you don’t like wholesomeness. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-from-the-slut-shaming-is-the-way-we-live-deep-in-the-heart-of-texas-department/819817/100 "2018-08-20T11:04:03Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > a statement encouraging girls to be ladylike The crucial point you’re ignoring is that the statement is implicitly making girls **responsible** for boys’ behavior by being “ladylike”: > [@](#): > > “The more you act like a lady, the more he’ll act like a gentleman.” This is clearly suggesting that boys aren’t obligated or expected to act “gentlemanly” with girls who don’t act “ladylike”. And the secondary implication is that if he treats you in an “ungentlemanly” way, it’s because you weren’t being “ladylike” enough. Both of those messages are unethical and wrong. And yes, they are a form of victim-blaming when it comes to sexual mistreatment of girls. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-from-the-slut-shaming-is-the-way-we-live-deep-in-the-heart-of-texas-department/819817.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-from-the-slut-shaming-is-the-way-we-live-deep-in-the-heart-of-texas-department/819817.md?page=6)