# And here's where the system sells us out to BP **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 27, 2012, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-heres-where-the-system-sells-us-out-to-bp/614150 "2012-02-27T14:46:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-heres-where-the-system-sells-us-out-to-bp/614150/21 "2012-02-27T19:22:32Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I’m not sure what you want them to do. They fucked up, they’re paying a price for it. Could the price be higher? Sure. Are they sorry for the fuck up, I’m sure they are. This hasn’t been a fun couple of years to be BP. Well, that just makes me feel _terrible_ for the poor little helpless dears. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-heres-where-the-system-sells-us-out-to-bp/614150/22 "2012-02-27T19:50:07Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Well, that just makes me feel _terrible_ for the poor little helpless dears. Hey, I’m not shedding any tears for them either, but what is it you want? I tell my clients, “I can’t undo the damage that was done to you. All I can do is (hopefully) get you some money. We’ll never get enough money to make up for the harms you suffered. But we can get you some money.” ---
**Author:** ![emcee2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emcee2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emcee2k)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-heres-where-the-system-sells-us-out-to-bp/614150/23 "2012-02-27T19:54:29Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > … The first, however, is just buying their way out of a catastrophic ecological and economic failure. … As oppose to…? ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-heres-where-the-system-sells-us-out-to-bp/614150/24 "2012-02-27T20:18:32Z")
> [@emcee2k](#): > > As oppose to…? Being forced to pay for every cent of damage they caused, regardless of the effect it would have on the future of the company or how long it took them to repay it (Say, it’s 2050 and it was just discovered that Northern Gulf batfish populations were heavily impacted by the spill, because its prey fish was poisoned by eating Corexit-damaged zooplankton? Please pay however many billions it will take for habitat renewal, cleanup, trophic remediation, breeding, restocking, and a dedicated research fund for the next 20 years, payable now. We don’t take IOU’s.), and the responsible parties, including subcontractors, who cut the corners that got the platform workers killed, going to jail. I am fucking sick of the Tragedy of the Commons. We need to put an economically real price tag on it. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-heres-where-the-system-sells-us-out-to-bp/614150/25 "2012-02-27T20:36:35Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Being forced to pay for every cent of damage they caused, regardless of the effect it would have on the future of the company or how long it took them to repay it > > Please pay however many billions it will take for habitat renewal, cleanup, trophic remediation, breeding, restocking, and a dedicated research fund for the next 20 years, payable now. We don’t take IOU’s.) In other words, buying their way out of a catastrophic ecological and economic failure. > [@](#): > > the responsible parties, including subcontractors, who cut the corners that got the platform workers killed, going to jail There are laws against criminal negligence, aren’t there? ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-heres-where-the-system-sells-us-out-to-bp/614150/26 "2012-02-27T20:44:21Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > In other words, buying their way out of a catastrophic ecological and economic failure. No, there’s a marked difference between “buying” and “paying for” in this case, and don’t even think about being a pedant about it. You know exactly what I mean. There’s no way BP will be paying for even a tiny fraction of the actual damage they caused. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-heres-where-the-system-sells-us-out-to-bp/614150/27 "2012-02-27T20:51:10Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > No, there’s a marked difference between “buying” and “paying for” in this case, and don’t even think about being a pedant about it. You know exactly what I mean. **There’s no way BP will be paying for even a tiny fraction of the actual damage they caused**. That happens every day. Some guy with $50,000 in insurance runs over a kid (or a parent for that matter). They don’t pay even a tiny fraction of the actual damaged caused. It would be nice, I suppose, to live in a world where wrongdoers payed for all the harm they caused. (I know I would profit from living in such a world). It just doesn’t happen. In the case of BP and the Gulf mess, they’re probably closer to accomplishing this than most entities. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-heres-where-the-system-sells-us-out-to-bp/614150/28 "2012-02-27T21:17:15Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > There’s no way BP will be paying for even a tiny fraction of the actual damage they caused. Ok… BP’s estimated $40 Billion of liability, the company in total was worth around $200B before the accident. How much more do you want? You can’t get blood from a stone, you’re never ever getting more than 5x what BP has estimated, because that money doesn’t exist. You want to punish them in perpetuity. This raises two questions. One, why would they agree to pay anything if payments never make the problem go away? Two, what company would want to do business with us ever again? ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-heres-where-the-system-sells-us-out-to-bp/614150/29 "2012-02-27T21:22:24Z")
And three, how would you continue to collect once you’ve driven the company into bankruptcy? ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-heres-where-the-system-sells-us-out-to-bp/614150/30 "2012-02-27T21:26:54Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Ok… BP’s estimated $40 Billion of liability, the company in total was worth around $200B before the accident. How much more do you want? You can’t get blood from a stone, you’re never ever getting more than 5x what BP has estimated, because that money doesn’t exist. > > You want to punish them in perpetuity. This raises two questions. One, why would they agree to pay anything if payments never make the problem go away? Two, what company would want to do business with us ever again? And there might be a few innocent folks who rely upon BP for a living. Maybe one or two. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-heres-where-the-system-sells-us-out-to-bp/614150/31 "2012-02-27T21:30:55Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Hey, I’m not shedding any tears for them either, but what is it you want? {snip} I want my father back, you son of a bitch! Where the hell is Inigo when you need him? ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-heres-where-the-system-sells-us-out-to-bp/614150/32 "2012-02-27T22:25:19Z")
I wonder what the ocean would get in a settlement! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-heres-where-the-system-sells-us-out-to-bp/614150/33 "2012-02-27T22:40:38Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > I wonder what the ocean would get in a settlement! > > 😉 Tsunamis? ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-heres-where-the-system-sells-us-out-to-bp/614150/34 "2012-02-27T23:00:17Z")
I don’t get this pitting at all. As others said, this is a civil law suit and it generally makes the most sense to settle out of court. First, you get a guarenteed amount now, or at least payments starting now, in court you have to wait for a trial, which could take months or years, with unpredictable results and massively higher costs. So, even if you do end up getting more money from the trial, because of the delay and costs, you may still end up behind. Second, it seems like there’s a “Screw BP!” sentiment here, and often settling out of court will help minimize that, but I think BP’s public image is already sufficiently screwed that it wouldn’t really make a difference. Third, they still have the actual criminal charges, so it’s not like they’re getting out of anything. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-heres-where-the-system-sells-us-out-to-bp/614150/35 "2012-02-27T23:20:07Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > I don’t get this pitting at all. As others said, this is a civil law suit and it generally makes the most sense to settle out of court. The pitting is because the OP is ignorant of how civil law tends to work. There shouldn’t be any outrage, because a settlement out of court means that the people who brought the suit in the first place have agreed not to go to court in favor of whatever the defendants are ordering. This could be because they’re fatigued in terms of time, court costs, or because the settlement is judged to be a better deal than what they might get if the the suit was dragged out to its full conclusion. And since it’s a settlement OUT OF COURT, it means that the government can’t step in and demand that BP pay more. It’s between them and the plaintiffs at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-heres-where-the-system-sells-us-out-to-bp/614150/36 "2012-02-27T23:26:44Z")
Saw thread title in Tapatalk. Knew immediately who the thread starter was. Couldn’t resist clicking through to confirm! Still hate BP, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-heres-where-the-system-sells-us-out-to-bp/614150/37 "2012-02-28T00:36:35Z")
I hereby award you seven (7) gonzomax-Shodan points for unironic use of “the system” to refer to mutually agreed settlement between a wrongdoer and its victims. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-heres-where-the-system-sells-us-out-to-bp/614150/38 "2012-02-28T03:24:54Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > And three, how would you continue to collect once you’ve driven the company into bankruptcy? Oh, I think 100% would be plenty. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-heres-where-the-system-sells-us-out-to-bp/614150/39 "2012-02-28T06:19:25Z")
Hey **Ogre** , I can get you a deal on a few crates of torches and pitchforks with only a modest markup (a guy’s got to make a living, don’t you know). PM me if you’re interested. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-heres-where-the-system-sells-us-out-to-bp/614150/40 "2012-02-28T06:35:31Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Oh, I think 100% would be plenty. Are you sure you’re not a sock of the OP’s? You seem just as dumb. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-heres-where-the-system-sells-us-out-to-bp/614150.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-heres-where-the-system-sells-us-out-to-bp/614150.md?page=3)