### Author:  [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2003, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-i-used-to-scoff-at-the-idea-of-language-police/178201/1 "2003-05-29T05:30:40Z")
From [CNN.com](http://CNN.com):
[Language police bar ‘old,’ ‘blind’](http://www.cnn.com/2003/EDUCATION/05/28/life.language.reut/index.html)
> [@](#):
>
> To get the full 500-word list of what is banned and why, consult “The Language Police,” a new book by New York University professor of education Dianne Ravitch, a former education official in President George H.W. Bush’s administration and a consultant to the Clinton administration.
>
> \
>
> **’The Older Person and the Water’**
>
> She says a lot of people are having fun finding new titles for Ernest Hemingway’s “The Old Man and the Sea” which presents problems with every word except “and” and “the.” Ravitch said old is ageist, man is sexist and sea can’t be used in case a student lives inland and doesn’t grasp the concept of a large body of water.
:eek:
What the fuck does she mean, “grasp the concept of a large body of water”?
:::checks calendar::: No, it’s not April 1st. Okay. Now, isn’t that the purpose of reading? To find out about stuff outside of your scope?
This is double-plus un-good.
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### Author:  [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2003, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-i-used-to-scoff-at-the-idea-of-language-police/178201/2 "2003-05-29T05:36:09Z")
I saw her on the Dailey Show. Jon had pretty much the same reaction.
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### Author:  [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2003, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-i-used-to-scoff-at-the-idea-of-language-police/178201/3 "2003-05-29T05:49:34Z")
Does anyone have a de-smallifier for my :rolleyes:?
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### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2003, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-i-used-to-scoff-at-the-idea-of-language-police/178201/4 "2003-05-29T06:01:34Z")
That bitch is fucking crazy. Can I say “is?”
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### Author:  [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2003, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-i-used-to-scoff-at-the-idea-of-language-police/178201/5 "2003-05-29T06:05:49Z")
You’re forgetting that she’s not advocationg that. Her book’s full title is:
> [@](#):
>
> The Language Police: How Pressure Groups Restrict What Students Learn.
She’s describing the situation. Here’s part of what Booklist (as quoted on the [Amazon.com](http://Amazon.com) page for the book) had to say:
> [@](#):
>
> She takes to task the publishers of textbooks and standardized tests for removing language and images deemed offensive, thereby robbing text of meaning, substance, or value.
In other words, Rilchiam: SHE’S ON YOUR SIDE OF THE ISSUE!
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### Author:  [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2003, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-i-used-to-scoff-at-the-idea-of-language-police/178201/6 "2003-05-29T06:08:56Z")
You folks _do_ realize that Ms. Ravitch is not defending the practice, right?
Her point (a point made in several threads posted in **GD** and the **Pit** ) is that the textbook publishers are so afraid of offending _anyone_, that they have turned all their output into homogeneous, inoffensive (and mindless) pap.
Ms. Ravitch does not support their actions; she wrote her book to condemn them. As she notes in the linked article:
> [@](#):
>
> According to Ravitch both the right wing and the left wing get what they want in American textbooks, for example an emphasis on family values and equality among ethnic groups.
In an interview I heard with her about two weeks ago, she pointed out that the Left Wing in California and the Right Wing in Texas have established such a stranglehold on what they will “allow” into their respective states, that the seven or eight remaining textbook publishers all _choose_ to print mush rather than alienate either side. Since those two states are two of the three largest purchasers of textbooks in the country, many states simpy defer to the decisions that are made in those states, meaning that once an item has been vetted and removed by one of those states, it will no longer appear in any textbook.
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### Author:  [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2003, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-i-used-to-scoff-at-the-idea-of-language-police/178201/7 "2003-05-29T06:15:26Z")
The reactions of the people blaming her for the changes are proof that schools are failing because of these changes, as reading conprehension has been destroyed. 😃
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### Author:  [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2003, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-i-used-to-scoff-at-the-idea-of-language-police/178201/8 "2003-05-29T06:45:05Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Monty \*
> \*\*You’re forgetting that she’s not advocationg that. Her book’s full title is:
> She’s describing the situation. Here’s part of what Booklist (as quoted on the [Amazon.com](http://Amazon.com) page for the book) had to say:
> In other words, Rilchiam: SHE’S ON YOUR SIDE OF THE ISSUE! \*\*
…huh…that must be another Southwest flight, causing that whooshing sound above my head…
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### Author:  [@Satisfying\_Andy\_Licious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satisfying_Andy_Licious)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2003, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-i-used-to-scoff-at-the-idea-of-language-police/178201/9 "2003-05-29T07:04:39Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \*
> \*\*That bitch is fucking crazy. Can I say “is?” \*\*
That depends on what the definition of “is” is.
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### Author:  [@Cerri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerri)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2003, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-i-used-to-scoff-at-the-idea-of-language-police/178201/10 "2003-05-29T07:28:44Z")
As has been pointed out, this woman is OPPOSING this, I saw her interviewed on the Daily Show with Jon Stewart as well. She’s as outraged about it as you guys are. Jon’s reaction was hilarious, I thought the top of his head was gonna blow off.
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### Author:  [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2003, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-i-used-to-scoff-at-the-idea-of-language-police/178201/11 "2003-05-29T07:39:28Z")
I’m sorry, but this is hysterical. An entire thread started from a woosh.
Good times. 😃
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### Author:  [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2003, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-i-used-to-scoff-at-the-idea-of-language-police/178201/12 "2003-05-29T08:17:37Z")
I’m just glad I was part of the last generation to get out of school before they became moron-manufacturing death-traps. Means I can look forward to a life time of leisure supported by the vast, ignorant underclass of menial laborers we are currently churning out of our public schools.
No offence to any teachers reading this thread. I’m sure you doing the best you can, but you’re like the Spartans at Thermopylae: incredibly brave, and utterly screwed.
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### Author:  [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2003, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-i-used-to-scoff-at-the-idea-of-language-police/178201/13 "2003-05-29T08:26:56Z")
Miller, I don’t think you can use “Spartans”, “Thermopylae” “screwed” “leisure” “School”
“moron” or “traps”.
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### Author:  [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2003, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-i-used-to-scoff-at-the-idea-of-language-police/178201/14 "2003-05-29T10:44:11Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Miller \*
> \*\*I’m just glad I was part of the last generation to get out of school before they became moron-manufacturing death-traps. \*\*
Which generation was that? I’m just wondering which side of the line I’m on. 😃
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### Author:  [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2003, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-i-used-to-scoff-at-the-idea-of-language-police/178201/15 "2003-05-29T11:08:56Z")
I’d have to say the last generation that was able to play with lawn darts. It’s all related.
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### Author:  [@The\_Man\_With\_The\_Golden\_Gun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Man_With_The_Golden_Gun)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2003, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-i-used-to-scoff-at-the-idea-of-language-police/178201/16 "2003-05-29T11:13:49Z")
Hemingway is spinning in his grave.
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### Author:  [@Fern\_Forest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fern_Forest)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2003, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-i-used-to-scoff-at-the-idea-of-language-police/178201/17 "2003-05-29T11:23:08Z")
That was a good interview (with Jon Stewart) and it really made me want to read the book. The whole politically correct run wild is one of the most mind boggling things there is in America today. How can the fact that a story about a man actually has the word “man” in the title be sexist?
I graduated from High School in 1992. I could sense it coming and I hit the leading edge. It is one of many many things that make me glad I made it out when I did. I do feel sorry for the next generation.
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### Author:  [@Fern\_Forest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fern_Forest)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2003, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-i-used-to-scoff-at-the-idea-of-language-police/178201/18 "2003-05-29T11:24:56Z")
In fact “The Old Man and the Sea” is a perfect Hemingway title. Right? That’s exactly how he wrote. Ugh!
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### Author:  [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2003, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-i-used-to-scoff-at-the-idea-of-language-police/178201/19 "2003-05-29T11:25:46Z")
That’s going too far! :dubious:
I believe that language should largely be unrestricted. There are cases where certain words or phrases “offend” and so out of respect and kindness I don’t use them when communicating to, or near the people who would be offended. That’s just common courtesy to me, and it helps society run smoother too.
These people to me at least, are just addled! How can you convey all the nuances that good communication requires if you can’t use adjectives? That’s what it seems to me they are trying to get rid of. :rolleyes:
Have they even considered that at times words must be few, short, and to the point? As in a manhunt for a violent offender, or an emergency situation? This is why verbal communication evolved in the first place. To quicly communicate ideas to help the “pack” survive.
_Shudder_ Now I’m having a flashback. I once saw a “politically correct” children’s book.
Original title? “The Three Billy Goats Gruff”
New title? “The Three Co-Dependents” :eek:
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### Author:  [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2003, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-i-used-to-scoff-at-the-idea-of-language-police/178201/20 "2003-05-29T11:32:26Z")
DATELINE: CHICAGO, ILLINOIS. The Chicago Reader today announced it was discontinuing “The Straight Dope” as the name of the often scathing, irreverant column authored by Cecil Adams, according to a spokesman for the company.
“We can no longer say ‘straight,’” explained Ed Zotti, “because it’s offensive to homosexuals. We also cannot continue to use ‘dope,’ because it implies illicit drug use.”
Mr. Zotti added that questions for Mr. Adams will now appear under the aegis of “The Not-Quite-Crooked Plausible Informative.”
Mr. Adams could not be reached for comment.
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