# And John Kasich makes 16 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 21, 2015, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-john-kasich-makes-16/725801 "2015-07-21T18:01:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2016, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-john-kasich-makes-16/725801/81 "2016-02-12T02:24:42Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > But what a President thinks of an amendment doesn’t really matter, since Presidents are completely irrelevant to the amendment process. If Congress had the votes, they could pass it now and Obama couldn’t do a thing about it. You know adaher, some of your points seem to be getting more reasonable over time. This concerns me. 😃 More seriously, we have a real problem if the President doesn’t believe in counter-cyclic fiscal policy, as all Presidents after Eisenhower have. > [@](#): > > I don’t know that Cheney is a good comparison since Cheney is a very secretive guy who likes to work behind the scenes while Kasich has always liked to be in the limelight. I’d compare Kasich more to John McCain. Very conservative, but occasionally heterodox(such as on Medicaid expansion) and always willing to work with the other side. Plus, like McCain, he takes defeat pretty gracefully such as when he lost the union referendum. Well McCain is a bad comparison, because McCain is more centrist. I admit that nobody I know of is as talented a bureaucratic infighter as Cheney. So let me modify and say _Representative_ Cheney. When he was the rep from Rhode Island, Cheney was always willing to cut deals. And he was very very conservative. Relentlessly so. Slate: John Kasich is basically, "[a staunch conservative who once said something nice about the poor."](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/02/john_kasich_isn_t_as_moderate_as_many_democrats_and_republicans_think.html) Money quote: [INDENT]He’s saying that he knows how to do what needs to be done, but in order to achieve it you’re going to have to cut some deals with Democrats. It’s this combination of mild demeanor and procedural realpolitik that makes Kasich the nefarious “moderate” who understands what it means to govern and thus is actively despised by the conservative base. Unless the filibuster is torn down completely, any Republican who becomes president will have to operate this way. Kasich is a filthy rotten moderate RINO for admitting it. [/INDENT] I say Kasich is an investment banker. He’s a committed (and backwards) economic conservative in favor of budget-busting tax cuts for the rich and social security cuts for the remainder. But he knows that gridlock is bad for business. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2016, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-john-kasich-makes-16/725801/82 "2016-02-12T03:07:31Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > …More seriously, I hope Kasich doesn’t mean it when he [s]ays he wants a balanced budget amendment… Most people don’t go to the trouble of starting a 501(c)(4) in favor of something they _don’t_ want: [John Kasich - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kasich#Balanced_budget_amendment) And here’s more on his crappy public schools record: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2016/02/10/the-education-mess-in-ohio-under-gov-john-kasich/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2016/02/10/the-education-mess-in-ohio-under-gov-john-kasich/) ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2016, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-john-kasich-makes-16/725801/83 "2016-02-12T12:44:13Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > If **crucible** is talking about whether those positions would keep any right-wing Republicans from voting for Kasich against Hillary or Bernie, rather than for him for the nomination, I think he’s pretty much right. A handful of wingnuts might abstain, figuring ‘what’s the difference between them,’ but very few. Fox News and all the talk-radio people they listen to would be telling them that the difference was quite real. I’m not certain that’s true. I don’t think it was true in 2012. The people who didn’t vote for Romney (who voted in 2008) were the same people who are lining up behind Trump this year–less educated, blue collar white voters. They aren’t against Social Security and Medicare, but they are against Medicaid and Obamacare. They are against immigration, legal or illegal. They think Obama is trying to destroy the country by making it foreign. They have a better than even chance of thinking Obama is a Muslim who wasn’t born in the US. These aren’t John Kasich voters for the same reason they were not Mitt Romney voters. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2016, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-john-kasich-makes-16/725801/84 "2016-02-13T03:16:51Z")
[Kasich, the moderate one, is proposing a new government agency to export Judeo-Christian ideology to the rest of the world.](http://www.occupydemocrats.com/2016/02/13/kasich-proposes-new-govt-agency-to-export-neocon-judeo-christian-belief-system-to-rest-of-the-world/) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2016, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-john-kasich-makes-16/725801/85 "2016-02-13T03:29:38Z")
He’s got the right idea, but the term he should be using is “Western”, which includes atheism and agnosticism. But Western values are something we all agree on, and the way forward for all cultures. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2016, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-john-kasich-makes-16/725801/86 "2016-02-13T03:34:33Z")
Lindsay Graham said, “Wasn’t that called the Crusades?” ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2016, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-john-kasich-makes-16/725801/87 "2016-02-13T03:39:44Z")
Graham is right. We shouldn’t export Christian values, but if liberals are right about one thing, it’s that political correctness should be taught to all cultures. End sexism, racism, homophobia, etc. Kasich should just repackage it and put college professors in charge of it. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2016, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-john-kasich-makes-16/725801/88 "2016-02-13T03:48:36Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Graham is right. We shouldn’t export Christian values, but if liberals are right about one thing, it’s that political correctness should be taught to all cultures. **End sexism, racism, homophobia** , etc. > > Kasich should just repackage it and put college professors in charge of it. Explain how that’s"political correctness". Why do you hate equality? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2016, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-john-kasich-makes-16/725801/89 "2016-02-13T03:58:23Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Graham is right. We shouldn’t export Christian values, but if liberals are right about one thing, it’s that political correctness should be taught to all cultures. End sexism, racism, homophobia, etc. > > Kasich should just repackage it and put college professors in charge of it. So Kasich’s plan would be great if it were a totally different plan, right? But as it is, it’s total bigoted crap, right? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2016, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-john-kasich-makes-16/725801/90 "2016-02-13T04:01:36Z")
No, it would be great if it was just called something different. If you read what he actually says about his plan, it’s basically just teaching liberalism to other cultures. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2016, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-john-kasich-makes-16/725801/91 "2016-02-13T04:03:06Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Graham is right. We shouldn’t export Christian values, but if liberals are right about one thing, it’s that political correctness should be taught to all cultures. End sexism, racism, homophobia, etc. > > Kasich should just repackage it and put college professors in charge of it. He’d alienate like half of the party base with that. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2016, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-john-kasich-makes-16/725801/92 "2016-02-13T04:07:50Z")
Then it’s quite possible that what he wants is essentially liberal, but he’s calling it what he’s calling it to appeal to the Republican base. The best part is, it’s not a lie. Judeo-Christian values are essentially liberal values. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2016, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-john-kasich-makes-16/725801/93 "2016-02-13T04:13:49Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Then it’s quite possible that what he wants is essentially liberal, but he’s calling it what he’s calling it to appeal to the Republican base. The best part is, it’s not a lie. Judeo-Christian values are essentially liberal values. So what religion does the GOP (as individuals) follow? Or are they all closet atheists? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2016, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-john-kasich-makes-16/725801/94 "2016-02-13T04:18:28Z")
On the issue of treatment of women, equality of man, etc., we all agree on those values, and they did originate in Western thought, which in turn grew out of the Judeo-Christian tradition. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2016, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-john-kasich-makes-16/725801/95 "2016-02-13T05:37:50Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > He’s got the right idea, but the term he should be using is “Western”, which includes atheism and agnosticism. But Western values are something we all agree on, and the way forward for all cultures. No. He has the wrong idea. You may want him to export Western values, but he wants to export Christianity. He has already tried that on different occasions in Ohio. The legislature passed an act that permitted organizations to link up with school boards to provide tutors to students in need. If the organization met certain criteria, the state would throw money at the participants. When the executive branch published the rules under which the partnerships would operate, Kasich had managed to insert a clause that said the organizations had to be connected to a religious group or they would not receive the funds. Nothing in the actual law passed mentioned religion as a necessary component. When challenged on that point, the Republican sponsors of the law passed by the Republican dominated legislature expressed surprise that such a rule had been inserted when they had not intended any such thing and had not included such a requirement in the law. (I mention the party affiliation to note that this was not a matter of inter-party politics and backpedaling.) ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2016, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-john-kasich-makes-16/725801/96 "2016-02-13T06:00:54Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > On the issue of treatment of women, equality of man, etc., we all agree on those values, and they did originate in Western thought, which in turn grew out of the Judeo-Christian tradition. The Western world accepting the equality of women, is a result of it leaving J-C values behind. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2016, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-john-kasich-makes-16/725801/97 "2016-02-13T06:02:57Z")
It’s probably fair to say that liberal values appeared\* in response to \*the Judeo-Christian tradition. Details like this matter. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2016, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-john-kasich-makes-16/725801/98 "2016-02-13T07:52:37Z")
Back to Kasich’s chances, in SC he’s vaulted to… 9% and 5th place in a field of five. [http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/sc/south\_carolina\_republican\_presidential\_primary-4151.html](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/sc/south_carolina_republican_presidential_primary-4151.html) Hopefully that’s not his peak in SC. He’s campaigning there, but looking ahead to Michigan to make his 2nd stand. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-john-kasich-makes-16/725801/99 "2016-02-13T21:15:04Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Kasich is a right-winger, in the Reagan or Jeb style. Still, he’s a more worthy contender from the GOP than the buffoonish egomaniac, the teabagging evangelist, or the callow kid. > > As of now, Betfair shows approximately the following odds on the dogs racing toward the November win: > Hillary 1-1 > Trump 6-1 > Rubio 10-1 > Sanders 11-1 > Bush 16-1 > Cruz 18-1 > Bloomb 35-1 > Biden 90-1 > Kasich 100-1 > Other 45-1 > > I think that is quite wrong. I’d move Kasich from last to near the top. He is the GOP’s best hope to upset Ms. Clinton. Here are the odds I’ll show: > Hillary 5-4 > Kasich 5-1 > Rubio 6-1 > Bush 10-1 > Sanders 18-1 > Biden 28-1 > Trump 40-1 > Cruz 45-1 > Bloomb 250-1 > Other 45-1 > > What do others think? I think (FWIW) that you’ve mixed up a few issues: how likely somebody is to win a free-for-all Battle Royale-style presidential contest, how best to arrange an R win in the general, and how likely somebody is to win the actual primaries-then-convention-then-general system we have. Kasich might indeed be, as you say, the best hope to upset Clinton in the general. But if he has not even a snowball’s chance of being the nominee, he still deserves very long odds on being inaugurated in January. You can’t win the Super Bowl if you don’t even make the post season. You’re quoting Betfair’s odds on being inaugurated in January. And that’s the only question those odds answer. They don’t even provide much insight into smaller-scale questions such as “Who will win the SC primary?”. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2016, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-john-kasich-makes-16/725801/100 "2016-02-20T17:08:33Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > On the issue of treatment of women, equality of man, etc., we all agree on those values, and they did originate in Western thought, which in turn grew out of the Judeo-Christian tradition. “We all agree” ? You and I might, and some others, but certainly not everyone–not even those in the Western world. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-john-kasich-makes-16/725801.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-john-kasich-makes-16/725801.md?page=6)