# And Now Chris Hardwick \[domestic abuse allegations\]
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [June 15, 2018, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153 "2018-06-15T15:28:07Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 11
### Author:  [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2018, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/201 "2018-06-17T14:31:30Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#):
>
> Clarify: which of these is true?
>
> A. Was she abused and too foolish to have seen it and left; or
>
> B. Is she “torpedoing” his career, which implies it’s not true or he doesn’t deserve it.
>
> If A, then the fact she told her story and other people decided to implement social consequences is not her fault.
>
> If B, what about her (not her story, but her) makes her not credible that you dismiss her story to be untrue with no facts to support that?
>
> You can’t have it both ways.
Why doesn’t she name the abuser if the things she’s saying are true? Is that so she can claim to not have torpedoed his career because she didn’t name Chris Hardwick specifically?
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### Author:  [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2018, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/202 "2018-06-17T14:40:25Z")
> [@Biffster](#):
>
> Why doesn’t she name the abuser if the things she’s saying are true? Is that so she can claim to not have torpedoed his career because she didn’t name Chris Hardwick specifically?
I don’t know. In her words, she was writing this essay more as a way to help other young women recognize the warning signs of emotional abuse rather than it being an accusatory piece.
Nevertheless, the fact that other people sussed out what she chose to not make explicit is also not her fault.
Her actions seem to match her own explanation.
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### Author:  [@Batano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batano)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2018, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/203 "2018-06-17T14:57:25Z")
How about its true, but she knew what she was getting into. What next, sympathy for Trump voters?
It seems like we are on the verge of infantilizing women by saying they aren’t responsible for their own decisions.
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### Author:  [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2018, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/204 "2018-06-17T15:01:36Z")
> [@Batano](#):
>
> How about its true, but she knew what she was getting into. What next, sympathy for Trump voters?
>
> It seems like we are on the verge of infantilizing women by saying they aren’t responsible for their own decisions.
How? It’s about holding him accountable for his actions.
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### Author:  [@Batano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batano)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2018, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/205 "2018-06-17T15:23:14Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#):
>
> How? It’s about holding him accountable for his actions.
The better way to hold him accountable was to say buh bye the first time he acted like an asshole. Maybe he’d learn that if you treat people like shit they don’t want to be around you.
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### Author:  [@Batano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batano)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2018, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/206 "2018-06-17T15:25:57Z")
> [@CarnalK](#):
>
> Are you saying he couldn’t help himself but be an abusive asshole? He’s born that way and has no agency?
That would be an excellent point if he were the one claiming to be the victim.
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### Author:  [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2018, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/207 "2018-06-17T15:27:49Z")
> [@Batano](#):
>
> The better way to hold him accountable was to say buh bye the first time he acted like an asshole. Maybe he’d learn that if you treat people like shit they don’t want to be around you.
Right because abusers do it because they don’t know better.
Christ, I’ll say it again. This thread a primer on how to re-victimize women survivors of abuse.
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### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2018, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/208 "2018-06-17T16:42:20Z")
> [@Batano](#):
>
> The better way to hold him accountable was to say buh bye the first time he acted like an asshole. Maybe he’d learn that if you treat people like shit they don’t want to be around you.
Yep, this is exactly how badly behaved men have kept their positions of power in the industry all these years. She would have left him but AMC would never have been shamed into cancelling his show.
The lesson has to be that treating the people around you like shit can hurt your reputation and your career, not just get you dumped by one girlfriend.
There’s no good reason why Chris Hardwick should be able to expect that the public won’t find out about behavior like this.
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2018, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/209 "2018-06-17T17:21:45Z")
What’s most important here is that we imply or directly accuse that a woman who did nothing more than tell a story, with no reason to believe she’s being untruthful, is being dishonest. Or even if she’s being honest, she still should shut up because speaking out about her experiences in the way she chose is evil. Well done to all the Dopers who are helping to contribute to an atmosphere in society in which victims and survivors are less likely to come forward and tell their story. Good job, guys! A+ in contributing to societal misogyny!
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### Author:  [@Batano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batano)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2018, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/210 "2018-06-17T17:58:09Z")
I think it’s mysogyny to treat women like hothouse flowers that need to be protected from making bad choices. From her own words, it’s clear that she knew he was an asshole from the start. He was not Harvey Weinstein who had trememdous influence in the industry or Cosby who drugged women. He is just an asshole. The world is full of them, some of them are even women.
She is a grownup, she chose to pursue the relationship, and then one day she had enough and left.
If it’s true that he blackballed her career, then he should be held accountable for that. But labeling him as an abuser is a bit much. The first time he gave her “rules” she could have, and should have, said “fuck you” and left.
He wasn’t her boss when they got together. He didn’t have any control over her.
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2018, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/211 "2018-06-17T18:03:58Z")
> [@Batano](#):
>
> I think it’d mysogyny to treat women like hothouse flowers that need to be protected from making bad choices. From her own words, it’s clear that she knew he was an asshole from the start. He was not Harvey Weinstein who had trememdous influence in the industry or Cosby who drugged women. He is just an asshole. The world is full of them, some of them are even women.
>
> She is a grownup, she chose to pursue the relationship, and then one day she had enough and left.
>
> If it’s true that he blackballed her career, then he should be held accountable for that. But labeling him as an abuser is a bit much. The first time he gave her “rules” she could have, and should have, said “fuck you” and left.
>
> He wasn’t her boss when they got together. He didn’t have any control over her.
By all means focus on the important things – the imperfections of the woman who did nothing more than speak about her experiences – rather than a society which nitpicks and criticizes victims and survivors rather than recognizing all the ways in which it makes it harder and less welcoming for them to come forward. By all means focus on her imperfections over the distressing frequency of relatively powerful men abusing less powerful women, usually with no consequences.
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### Author:  [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2018, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/212 "2018-06-17T18:50:14Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> By all means focus on the important things – the imperfections of the woman who did nothing more than speak about her experiences – rather than a society which nitpicks and criticizes victims and survivors rather than recognizing all the ways in which it makes it harder and less welcoming for them to come forward. By all means focus on her imperfections over the distressing frequency of relatively powerful men abusing less powerful women, usually with no consequences.
You’re overstating your case. This is not about all society. This is about one woman and one man, both consenting adults, with different views of their past relationship. Stop trying to make it about something else.
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/213 "2018-06-17T20:06:59Z")
> [@Biffster](#):
>
> You’re overstating your case. This is not about all society. This is about one woman and one man, both consenting adults, with different views of their past relationship. Stop trying to make it about something else.
The issue of sexual assault and harassment is certainly about society. And attacking victims and survivors for doing nothing more than telling their story is par for the course for society. I’m calling it out because it’s a part of our society that needs to get better.
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### Author:  [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2018, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/214 "2018-06-17T20:36:22Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> The issue of sexual assault and harassment is certainly about society. And attacking victims and survivors for doing nothing more than telling their story is par for the course for society. I’m calling it out because it’s a part of our society that needs to get better.
That may be YOUR issue, but it’s not THIS issue in a specific he said/she said scenario. You side with the accuser because you choose to side with the accuser, not because of the facts of the story. And these facts have yet to be verified. You believe her because you WANT to believe her, whether or not she’s telling the truth.
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2018, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/215 "2018-06-17T20:46:07Z")
> [@Biffster](#):
>
> That may be YOUR issue, but it’s not THIS issue in a specific he said/she said scenario. You side with the accuser because you choose to side with the accuser, not because of the facts of the story. And these facts have yet to be verified. You believe her because you WANT to believe her, whether or not she’s telling the truth.
I’m not siding with anyone – I’m refusing to side against the accuser, and I’m calling out those who do. I’m saying that it’s wrong to criticize women for doing nothing more than come out and tell their story, not unless there are very solid reasons to believe they’re being dishonest. Without such solid reasons, it’s wrong and _harmful to society_ to even imply that she might not be honest. So stop harming society, even if it’s just a little bit at a time, and stop criticizing someone for doing nothing more than telling their story.
That says nothing about what you believe, or what I believe. Believe anything you want. I’m criticizing actions, not beliefs – the actions of casting aspersions on a woman for doing nothing more than speaking out about her experiences.
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### Author:  [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2018, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/216 "2018-06-17T20:49:51Z")
So, this is the host of Singled Out (I’m in my late 30s, surely I can’t be one of the “old” folks here). Was his “abuse” more than setting boundaries and expecting his significant other not to cheat? I’m not saying that’s all it was, but there a lot of people who expect all of the benefits of a relationship without following any of the “rules” and revising past “controlling” behavior (which I’m not saying is right or healthy) into abuse.
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### Author:  [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2018, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/217 "2018-06-17T21:00:21Z")
> [@Acsenray](#):
>
> Well it looks like respected mainstream actors and genre favorites Richard Hatch and Walter Koenig are among the army of people working with James Deen on that film.
Yes, and…? The issue I raised was of hypocrisy, not \*just \*working with Deen. If either of those were also publishing “#METOO” articles, you’d have a point.
Not that Hatch could, any more.
> [@](#):
>
> Note also that James Deen’s accusers are mostly women in the adult film industry. Women whom society values less, of one should believe the words of Rudolph Giuliani. It’s no wonder that Stoya’s accusations, backed up my several others, didn’t end Deen’s career.
The issue isn’t why Deen still gets work, the issue is why Dykstra actively defended him with him when,\* by her own admission\*, the inner workings of an abusive relationship aren’t always visible to anyone outside that relationship. And also, by her own admission, she isn’t the greatest judge of abusive men.
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### Author:  [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2018, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/218 "2018-06-17T21:02:14Z")
> [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](#):
>
> So, this is the host of Singled Out (I’m in my late 30s, surely I can’t be one of the “old” folks here). Was his “abuse” more than setting boundaries and expecting his significant other not to cheat? I’m not saying that’s all it was, but there a lot of people who expect all of the benefits of a relationship without following any of the “rules” and revising past “controlling” behavior (which I’m not saying is right or healthy) into abuse.
There’s an article linked in the OP, I suggest you read it before commenting further.
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2018, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/219 "2018-06-17T21:05:11Z")
> [@MrDibble](#):
>
> The issue isn’t why Deen still gets work, the issue is why Dykstra actively defended him with him when,\* by her own admission\*, the inner workings of an abusive relationship aren’t always visible to anyone outside that relationship. And also, by her own admission, she isn’t the greatest judge of abusive men.
While I think it’s fine to point out that she was wrong to do so, that she made such a mistake doesn’t make me any less sympathetic to her. Considering the patriarchal/rape-culture hammering that society, especially entertainment/Hollywood society, puts on very young women, I find it tough being harshly critical of her for failing to overcome it while in her 20s.
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### Author:  [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2018, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/220 "2018-06-17T21:21:13Z")
I’d be more sympathetic if she \*now \*acknowledges that mistake, but she hasn’t.
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