# And Now Chris Hardwick \[domestic abuse allegations\]
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [June 15, 2018, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153 "2018-06-15T15:28:07Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 18
### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2018, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/341 "2018-06-20T02:00:57Z")
> [@UltraVires](#):
>
> I skipped to the end. I accuse every poster in this thread of sexually assaulting me.
>
> Is it my duty to prove that, or is it every poster’s duty to refute it?
None of us are under any duty at all. We get to decide whether we believe you or not based on the nature of your accusation and the context you are making it in and the surrounding circumstances.
---
### Author:  [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2018, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/342 "2018-06-20T02:10:42Z")
> [@Acsenray](#):
>
> None of us are under any duty at all. We get to decide whether we believe you or not based on the nature of your accusation and the context you are making it in and the surrounding circumstances.
But no poster in this thread knows this woman or her credibility. Likewise, we don’t know Chris Hardwick or his credibility. Why do we value one statement over another? You’ve never met a liar?
---
### Author:  [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2018, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/343 "2018-06-20T02:31:03Z")
> [@UltraVires](#):
>
> Why do we value one statement over another?
That’s more a philosophical question about humanity in general. We believe based on evidence presented, supporting corroboration, and instinct.
---
### Author:  [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2018, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/344 "2018-06-20T02:41:05Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#):
>
> That’s more a philosophical question about humanity in general. We believe based on evidence presented, supporting corroboration, and instinct.
There is no evidence in this case, no corroboration, and our instinct is based solely on our preconceived notions about whether we sympathize with alleged victims or those wrongfully accused. In other words, we got nothing.
---
### Author:  [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2018, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/345 "2018-06-20T02:50:01Z")
> [@UltraVires](#):
>
> There is no evidence in this case,
…incorrect.
> [@](#):
>
> no corroboration,
Incorrect. Read the thread.
> [@](#):
>
> and our instinct is based solely on our preconceived notions about whether we sympathize with alleged victims or those wrongfully accused.
Our instincts are based on much more than that.
> [@](#):
>
> In other words, we got nothing.
Incorrect.
---
### Author:  [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2018, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/346 "2018-06-20T03:40:38Z")
> [@UltraVires](#):
>
> I skipped to the end. I accuse every poster in this thread of sexually assaulting me.
>
> Is it my duty to prove that, or is it every poster’s duty to refute it?
Exactly. And you’re assertion apparently constitutes evidence.
---
### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2018, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/347 "2018-06-20T03:45:54Z")
And we have more than just a bare statement from someone we don’t know.
We have Hardwick’s initial response, in which he failed to actually deny any specific accusation made by Dykstra.
And then there is more evidence, like this —
> **[Chris Hardwick's Hard Times: The Silence From Those in His Orbit Is Deafening...](https://www.thewrap.com/chris-hardwicks-hard-times-the-silence-from-those-in-his-orbit-is-deafening/)**
>
> Colleagues and former employees describe a demanding and temperamental boss
> [@](#):
>
> Nobody’s surprised. Everyone can think back to incidents with Chris that line up with something in that story,” the former employee said. “You don’t see anybody saying ‘That’s not the Chris Hardwick I know,’ because that is the Chris Hardwick most people know.”
>
> …
>
> “She’s not writing about a complete stranger there, I could recognize him through the details,” said a producer who has worked with Hardwick in the past.
>
> …
>
> “I have no reason to think he would be violent, but everything else she says, the way she describes his behavior, sounds like things about him that I absolutely do know to be true,” said another acquaintance of Hardwick’s in the TV industry. “It absolutely rings true.”
>
> …
>
> The former Nerdist employee said he believed Hardwick did play a role. “It was never explicit, but whenever someone said they were thinking of hiring Chloe, [Hardwick] would say, ‘Let me tell you a story.’ He used people’s emotions to get them on his side,” he said.
>
> …
---
### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2018, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/348 "2018-06-20T03:57:08Z")
> [@Biffster](#):
>
> Exactly. And you’re assertion apparently constitutes evidence.
Do you actually not understand the concept?
Yes, it’s evidence, and we can look at it and see how much weight to give it. For example, he’s a poster on an anonymous message board where most people have never met in person and don’t even know each other’s identities. He said it in a discussion about evidence to make a point. All these things make it unlikely that he even meant it to be true much less that it’s even possible for it to be true.
This context is very different from what’s happening with Hardwick. We know for a fact that Hardwick and Dykstra were in an intimate relationship for years, making her allegations at least logistically possible.
There’s also the fact that her detailed account so far has the ring of truth and it comes in the context of many women in the entertainment industry exposing what we know for a fact is a common problem if famous men using their positions of power for abuse.
There’s also the fact that someone in Dykstra’s position is risking a lot to come out with this story and there’s little chance of benefit.
None of these things by themselves might be conclusive but form at least a basis for the public to be open to the possibility that her essay was largely truthful. At the very least there’s no basis yet to criticize her for publishing it.
---
### Author:  [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2018, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/349 "2018-06-20T04:00:17Z")
> [@Biffster](#):
>
> Exactly. And you’re assertion apparently constitutes evidence.
…you’ve evaluated the evidence. Do you believe what UltraVires is true? Do you really think every poster in this thread, scattered all across the world, somehow managed to sexually assault UltraVires?
If you think what he said is true, then I would suggest what you should do is report everybody in this thread. Sexual assault is a horrible crime. We’ve been reminded several times in this thread that false accusations are bad, so if you believe that what UltraVires is true then reporting me is the very least you can do.
Because I haven’t sexually assaulted any posters in this thread. I’ve never met UltraVires, I live in a different country, and I have no intention of leaving here any time soon.
So now you have two bits of evidence to weigh up. You’ve got UltraVires’s words and you’ve got mine. Based on the evidence who do you believe?
And UltraVires: it would be appreciative if you could stop being so flippant in regards to sexual assault. It isn’t funny. And pretending you’ve been sexually assaulted by me isn’t very nice.
---
### Author:  [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2018, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/350 "2018-06-20T04:09:20Z")
> [@UltraVires](#):
>
> I skipped to the end. I accuse every poster in this thread of sexually assaulting me.
>
> Is it my duty to prove that, or is it every poster’s duty to refute it?
You’re a lawyer? I hope I’m not in your jurisdiction.
---
### Author:  [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2018, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/351 "2018-06-20T04:18:13Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#):
>
> And UltraVires: it would be appreciative if you could stop being so flippant in regards to sexual assault. It isn’t funny. And pretending you’ve been sexually assaulted by me isn’t very nice.
It’s not my intention to be flippant. Allegations of sexual assault should be taken very seriously. However, that standard should not and cannot be that if any person you have ever been alone with since reaching puberty can accuse you of something, and society and indeed posters in this thread take that word of your accuser as if it was handed to Moses on Mt. Sinai.
That skews the power balance to give power to liars and people with mental disorders to destroy the lives of others. There must be evidence.
---
### Author:  [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2018, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/352 "2018-06-20T04:27:19Z")
> [@UltraVires](#):
>
> I skipped to the end. I accuse every poster in this thread of sexually assaulting me.
>
> Is it my duty to prove that, or is it every poster’s duty to refute it?
Even in the grand tradition of snark on the boards, if you haven’t read the thread, please take note this is a serious topic and should be treated as such. Joking about sexual assault, especially from other posters, is not appropriate.
[/moderating]
---
### Author:  [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2018, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/353 "2018-06-20T04:31:25Z")
> [@UltraVires](#):
>
> It’s not my intention to be flippant.
…are you sure?
If it wasn’t your intention, then perhaps you should spend a bit more time thinking about your post before you post. Because even if the intent wasn’t to be flippant, what you posted most certainly was. If you were trying to make a point, you failed miserably. You actually demonstrated the exact opposite of what you were trying to prove.
> [@](#):
>
> Allegations of sexual assault should be taken very seriously. However, that standard should not and cannot be that if any person you have ever been alone with since reaching puberty can accuse you of something, and society and indeed posters in this thread take that word of your accuser as if it was handed to Moses on Mt. Sinai.
Word salad.
Can you try again, with less words? I can’t make sense of what you are trying to say. It kinda looks like a strawman to me, so perhaps you could clear that up for me by being a bit more concise and I’ll be able to know for sure. Thanks in advance.
> [@](#):
>
> That skews the power balance to give power to liars and people with mental disorders to destroy the lives of others.
Have you not been paying attention?
The power balance is most definitely skewed. Its skewed massively and disportionately away from women, minorities, and people of colour. What is it, do you think #metoo was all about?
> [@](#):
>
> There must be evidence.
And there is.
---
### Author:  [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2018, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/354 "2018-06-20T04:59:51Z")
> [@Acsenray](#):
>
> Do you actually not understand the concept?
>
> Yes, it’s evidence, and we can look at it and see how much weight to give it. For example, he’s a poster on an anonymous message board where most people have never met in person and don’t even know each other’s identities. He said it in a discussion about evidence to make a point. All these things make it unlikely that he even meant it to be true much less that it’s even possible for it to be true.
>
> This context is very different from what’s happening with Hardwick. We know for a fact that Hardwick and Dykstra were in an intimate relationship for years, making her allegations at least logistically possible.
>
> There’s also the fact that her detailed account so far has the ring of truth and it comes in the context of many women in the entertainment industry exposing what we know for a fact is a common problem if famous men using their positions of power for abuse.
>
> There’s also the fact that someone in Dykstra’s position is risking a lot to come out with this story and there’s little chance of benefit.
>
> None of these things by themselves might be conclusive but form at least a basis for the public to be open to the possibility that her essay was largely truthful. At the very least there’s no basis yet to criticize her for publishing it.
There’s no basis yet to criticize her for publishing it. There’s also no basis for believing it, and no basis for either believing or disbelieving Chris Hardwick. It’s also possible that her story may be of a composite of more than one person she believes abused her. That might explain why she doesn’t name her alleged abuser.
---
### Author:  [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2018, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/355 "2018-06-20T05:02:14Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#):
>
> …you’ve evaluated the evidence. Do you believe what UltraVires is true? Do you really think every poster in this thread, scattered all across the world, somehow managed to sexually assault UltraVires?
>
> If you think what he said is true, then I would suggest what you should do is report everybody in this thread. Sexual assault is a horrible crime. We’ve been reminded several times in this thread that false accusations are bad, so if you believe that what UltraVires is true then reporting me is the very least you can do.
>
> Because I haven’t sexually assaulted any posters in this thread. I’ve never met UltraVires, I live in a different country, and I have no intention of leaving here any time soon.
>
> So now you have two bits of evidence to weigh up. You’ve got UltraVires’s words and you’ve got mine. Based on the evidence who do you believe?
>
> And UltraVires: it would be appreciative if you could stop being so flippant in regards to sexual assault. It isn’t funny. And pretending you’ve been sexually assaulted by me isn’t very nice.
Apparently sarcasm doesn’t always translate well in print. I think UltraVires’s point had to do with how flimsy “evidence” can be for people to jump to conclusions.
---
### Author:  [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2018, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/356 "2018-06-20T05:17:06Z")
> [@Biffster](#):
>
> Apparently sarcasm doesn’t always translate well in print.
…poorly written sarcasm is easily defeated with a straight up rebuttal.
> [@](#):
>
> I think UltraVires’s point had to do with how flimsy “evidence” can be for people to jump to conclusions.
And how well did that go for him? His evidence was flimsy. Nobody believed him. His accusation was physically impossible. Everybody did jump to a conclusion and that conclusion was no sexual assaults took place. And we managed to do that on the basis of the evidence that we had (a couple of sentences) without any corroboration from anyone else.
Are we wrong to come to that conclusion? Did you somehow manage to come to another conclusion? Do we need to wait for more evidence to come out? Do I need to get the testimony of every single person in this thread and then take it to a court of law to get adjudicated?
Or am I free to express my opinion here in this thread? And if I can do it for UltraVires why am I not allowed to do it for Dykstra?
---
### Author:  [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2018, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/357 "2018-06-20T06:08:08Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#):
>
> …poorly written sarcasm is easily defeated with a straight up rebuttal.
>
> And how well did that go for him? His evidence was flimsy. Nobody believed him. His accusation was physically impossible. Everybody did jump to a conclusion and that conclusion was no sexual assaults took place. And we managed to do that on the basis of the evidence that we had (a couple of sentences) without any corroboration from anyone else.
>
> Are we wrong to come to that conclusion? Did you somehow manage to come to another conclusion? Do we need to wait for more evidence to come out? Do I need to get the testimony of every single person in this thread and then take it to a court of law to get adjudicated?
>
> Or am I free to express my opinion here in this thread? And if I can do it for UltraVires why am I not allowed to do it for Dykstra?
I don’t think anybody’s stopping you from expressing your opinion here in this thread, as evidenced by your continued practice to do just that.
---
### Author:  [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2018, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/358 "2018-06-20T07:48:18Z")
> [@Biffster](#):
>
> I don’t think anybody’s stopping you from expressing your opinion here in this thread,
…thanks for stating the obvious.
> [@](#):
>
> as evidenced by your continued practice to do just that.
See now I don’t get your point.
Do you agree with me? Or do you disagree with me?
---
### Author:  [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2018, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/359 "2018-06-20T12:45:16Z")
Some of the post-break up texts between Dykstra and Hardwick have “mysteriously” been [released to TMZ](http://www.tmz.com/2018/06/19/chris-hardwick-chloe-dykstra-breakup-cheating-text-messages/). I wonder who did that. Hmmm…
They include a long screed about Chloe cheating on him with Sam (Witwer, apparently) and how that made him feel, but it hardly points to any lying on her part, she admits to that in her post anyway. The comments on the article seem to be full of people taking Hardwick’s side and saying these texts prove, and I quote, that Chloe was clearly a “lying psycho bitch”.
But I’ve read on [other sites](https://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/111285276.html?page=1#comments) a [much more reasonable](https://www.dailydot.com/upstream/chloe-dykstra-chris-hardwick-texts/) assessment, that all they prove is he continues to make out he’s the victim, and that clearly she was still caught up in the “wanting to return” phase that these kinds of emotionally manipulative relationships always go through. A later text, one hoping they could at least remain friends, lines up with her wanting the blacklisting to end.
My assessment is this: She went through a few years of therapy after the break-up, and started to recognise what he was doing to her, and her blog post was her finally addressing it out loud, a crucial part of the process. She didn’t want to ruin Hardwick’s career, has no plans to press charges, but wants to help others who are going through the same thing. It takes a long time to get to that point, so any interaction between now and then can not be looked at as anything but still working through the process.
Also, Chloe has been talking about her relationship with Chris, in barely veiled but with no names, [on Reddit](https://twitter.com/tweedandtales/status/1009147234812944384) for at least a year. This isn’t a spur-of-the-moment reaction, no “suspicious timing”, whatever that means.
There may be exaggeration on both sides, and probably Chris doesn’t realise what he was doing was wrong, so they are at a bit of an impasse if he can just honestly deny he did anything bad. I think the best source of the truth will be from their mutual friends and colleagues, most of whom are still not saying much just yet.
---
### Author:  [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2018, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/360 "2018-06-20T13:08:59Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#):
>
> I think the best source of the truth will be from their mutual friends and colleagues, most of whom are still not saying much just yet.
Wil Wheaton, for one, is catching a bit of flak for his “I need to process” noncommital post followed by a stream of political posts about the immigrant kids/dog pics but otherwise _crickets_.
Felicia Day, at least, posted something supportive with her “Need to process” tweet.
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