# And Now Chris Hardwick \[domestic abuse allegations\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 15, 2018, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153 "2018-06-15T15:28:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/761 "2018-08-12T13:25:09Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > That the #MeToo movement is quite properly holding abusers to account is the positive side of it. But there’s a sinister side to it, too. > > The sinister side is that it’s casting such a wide net that almost any male who has ever been in a relationship with a woman that has broken up on less than amicable terms is potentially in the crosshairs of a new and implacable weapon of the social justice brigade, adjudged not in the courtroom but in social media, convictions secured not on the basis of evidence but on unsubstantiated claims and innuendo. > > I don’t know Chris Hardwick from a hole in the ground and have no particular inclination to defend him, and maybe he really is an asshole. But the title follows in the pattern of all the others, which famously began with Harvey Weinstein (or maybe further back, with Bill Cosby). My question is: and now Chris Hardwick is … what? Proven to be just exactly the same as the criminal predators Harvey Weinstein and Bill Cosby? Based on what? Is this what our concept of justice and fair play has come to now? > > In this specific case, AMC investigated the claims and decided that Hardwick should be returned to work on the show. NBC returned him to “America’s Got Talent”, and Nerdist restored his name to their website. [There are other signs](https://pagesix.com/2018/08/05/has-the-metoo-movement-lost-its-clout/), too, that #MeToo has itself become abusive and guilty of overreach; Megyn Kelly has said that the movement has been “expanded to the point of ridiculousness by some.” > > Gossip and innuendo has always been toxic, but with the power of social media and the fashionable emergence of #MeToo, the toxicity has become weaponized. There is potential for beneficial social reform, yes, but it’s also created hair-trigger sensitivities and a one-sided power imbalance capable of causing a great deal of harm and injustice. There’s always a downside. It’s frustrating when some people respond, “so a few innocent men get falsely accused. Big deal. Do you know how many women never get justice?” as though this were a team sport as opposed to a multitude of individual cases, each with their own set of circumstances and people involved. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/762 "2018-08-12T13:47:27Z")
> [@Warm\_blood](#): > > As an aside, it’s weird how most of the internet is stubbornly resolute in its stance that Chloe Dykstra is 100% truthful based on the odd reactions to Hardwick having his job reinstated. Everyone is free to believe what they want to believe for whatever reason, but it’s wholly unrealistic and unfair to expect that people accused of misconduct should be made to lose their livelihood if there is absolutely nothing to support the veracity of the accusations. Chloe was given a chance to prove her side of the story, and she ultimately chose not to. Whether it’s because she lied about the evidence she claims is in her possession or for other unknown reasons, her credibility is now rightly shot because she shared her story and the details within it with the obvious intent that it invite trouble for Hardwick. If it was simply about aiding other domestic abuse survivors or just a form of self-therapy, she would have omitted all identifying information that made it clear as day who she was talking about. She’s not an idiot. > False accusations may be rare, but nevertheless they do happen and you have no way of distinguishing legitimate accusations from the false ones until a thorough investigation is made, which can only happen if you give the accused party the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. “Believe women” has got to be the worst tagline for the MeToo movement because adherents of the movement insist on having it taken literally in all situations. No, it’s not weird at all that people continue to believe her who believed her before. The information hasn’t changed. Not finding anything doesn’t mean that nothing happened. It’s simply often the result even if something did happen. All we have is AMC’s word that they made an investigation–they didn’t even release the actual findings or what was done. And, sorry, companies doing their own internal investigation are suspect because of past history. Transparency is needed. Presuming innocence is a concept in court for the reason that the court system would rather have 10 guilty people go free than convict one innocent person. But that’s not the standard outside of court. What we care about is simply whether or not it actually happened. If there is 51% likelihood that it happened, that’s enough. Not the 95% required required in a court of law. What I notice is that the investigation did not give me any reason to doubt what Dykstra said. That’s what I needed. Without that, I lean towards Hardwick doing what is described. The only saving grace is that he may have not realized how badly it was bothering her, since it seems she never really communicated the issue. I’m not really all that interested in whether this one rich guy (who many argue is an asshole even before this hit) has to go back to doing normal jobs. What I’m interested in is the message this sends. Will people realize that such things are bad and try not to do them, since they could result in a temporary loss of work? Or will they feel vindicated and think they can keep on being abusive as long as they make sure there is no external evidence? I’m hoping for the former, but the rhetoric around the situation suggests the latter. And I am not okay with that. Hardwick can do or not do whatever. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/763 "2018-08-12T14:42:45Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > If there is 51% likelihood that it happened, that’s enough. And you’d feel exactly the same way if _ **you** _ were the accused and lost your job and reputation, amirite? > [@BigT](#): > > What I notice is that the investigation did not give me any reason to doubt what Dykstra said. Nor did anyone try to claim such a thing. The investigation apparently determined that the fair thing to do, when Dykstra’s claims were viewed dispassionately and in context, was to restore Hardwick to the positions from which he had been preemptively suspended. This may have been because the true/false distinction is not the only standard that applies; there is also what fact-checkers like to call “partly true”, or “true, but not the way it was described” or “true but with mitigating circumstances”. The trouble with mob justice is not only that it can promulgate complete falsehoods, but also that it lacks such critical nuance. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/764 "2018-08-12T15:17:17Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > No, it’s not weird at all that people continue to believe her who believed her before. The information hasn’t changed. Not finding anything doesn’t mean that nothing happened. It’s simply often the result even if something did happen. All we have is AMC’s word that they made an investigation–they didn’t even release the actual findings or what was done. And, sorry, companies doing their own internal investigation are suspect because of past history. Transparency is needed. > > Presuming innocence is a concept in court for the reason that the court system would rather have 10 guilty people go free than convict one innocent person. But that’s not the standard outside of court. What we care about is simply whether or not it actually happened. If there is 51% likelihood that it happened, that’s enough. Not the 95% required required in a court of law. > > What I notice is that the investigation did not give me any reason to doubt what Dykstra said. That’s what I needed. Without that, I lean towards Hardwick doing what is described. The only saving grace is that he may have not realized how badly it was bothering her, since it seems she never really communicated the issue. > > I’m not really all that interested in whether this one rich guy (who many argue is an asshole even before this hit) has to go back to doing normal jobs. What I’m interested in is the message this sends. Will people realize that such things are bad and try not to do them, since they could result in a temporary loss of work? Or will they feel vindicated and think they can keep on being abusive as long as they make sure there is no external evidence? > > I’m hoping for the former, but the rhetoric around the situation suggests the latter. And I am not okay with that. Hardwick can do or not do whatever. “Keep on being abusive?” Hardwick has been married to Lydia Hearst for some time now and she describes his behaviour in a far more favourable light than Chloe “the ex” did. How exactly does he “keep on being abusive” in your mind? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/765 "2018-08-12T15:29:43Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > And so Chris Hardwick returns to the Talking Dead this weekend. I wonder if anything about his demeanour will have changed. They’ve already been airing his game show “The Wall” and he was a guest judge on America’s Got Talent this week. Seemed the same to me. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/766 "2018-08-12T17:03:03Z")
^Weren’t those taped before the scandal hit? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/767 "2018-08-12T17:36:23Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > No, it’s not weird at all that people continue to believe her who believed her before. The information hasn’t changed. Not finding anything doesn’t mean that nothing happened. It’s simply often the result even if something did happen. All we have is AMC’s word that they made an investigation–they didn’t even release the actual findings or what was done. And, sorry, companies doing their own internal investigation are suspect because of past history. Transparency is needed. > > Presuming innocence is a concept in court for the reason that the court system would rather have 10 guilty people go free than convict one innocent person. But that’s not the standard outside of court. What we care about is simply whether or not it actually happened. If there is 51% likelihood that it happened, that’s enough. Not the 95% required required in a court of law. > > What I notice is that the investigation did not give me any reason to doubt what Dykstra said. That’s what I needed. Without that, I lean towards Hardwick doing what is described. The only saving grace is that he may have not realized how badly it was bothering her, since it seems she never really communicated the issue. > > I’m not really all that interested in whether this one rich guy (who many argue is an asshole even before this hit) has to go back to doing normal jobs. What I’m interested in is the message this sends. Will people realize that such things are bad and try not to do them, since they could result in a temporary loss of work? Or will they feel vindicated and think they can keep on being abusive as long as they make sure there is no external evidence? > > I’m hoping for the former, but the rhetoric around the situation suggests the latter. And I am not okay with that. Hardwick can do or not do whatever. You surely must realize that the result of this policy of yours is that once accused, a person loses his livelihood. With a former sexual partner, there are many things that happened behind closed doors that there will never be any verification of one way or the other. How can a person protect him or herself from false allegations? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/768 "2018-08-12T21:45:38Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > ^Weren’t those taped before the scandal hit? Maybe the game show but I doubt AGT was. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/769 "2018-08-13T01:27:51Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > How can a person protect him or herself from false allegations? You can’t. Welcome to the real world. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/770 "2018-08-13T03:03:32Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Maybe the game show but I doubt AGT was. It was actually something I heard about AGT that prompted my question. I found this: > **[Chris Hardwick, after abuse allegations, will guest judge on 'AGT' and return...](https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2018/08/01/chris-hardwick-reinstated-amc-guest-judge-agt/876926002/)** > > The ubiquitous 'Talking Dead' host, who was reinstated by AMC last week after an investigation of sexual misconduct allegations, will appear on 'AGT' and return to host NBC's 'The Wall.' > [@](#): > > The “AGT” episode was filmed before the accusations were made against Hardwick. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/771 "2018-08-13T03:17:52Z")
Well that opening couple of minutes of Talking Dead seemed pretty heartfelt from Chris Hardwick. One almost gets the sense of how much pain he has gone through waiting for justice to come. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/772 "2018-08-13T03:33:59Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > No, it’s not weird at all that people continue to believe her who believed her before. The information hasn’t changed. Not finding anything doesn’t mean that nothing happened. It’s simply often the result even if something did happen. All we have is AMC’s word that they made an investigation–they didn’t even release the actual findings or what was done. And, sorry, companies doing their own internal investigation are suspect because of past history. Transparency is needed. People will believe what they wish to believe. It doesn’t make it right to ruin a person’s life based merely on an unproven assertion. Anyone can assert anything. You think that’s legitimate cause for ruin? > [@](#): > > Presuming innocence is a concept in court for the reason that the court system would rather have 10 guilty people go free than convict one innocent person. But that’s not the standard outside of court. What we care about is simply whether or not it actually happened. If there is 51% likelihood that it happened, that’s enough. Not the 95% required required in a court of law. Who’s this so-called “we?” And who is this “we” to decide that some arbitrary metric is sufficient to ruin people’s lives? There’s a reason the real we have court systems and trials and not vigilantes to determine justice. > [@](#): > > What I notice is that the investigation did not give me any reason to doubt what Dykstra said. That’s what I needed. Without that, I lean towards Hardwick doing what is described. The only saving grace is that he may have not realized how badly it was bothering her, since it seems she never really communicated the issue. > > I’m not really all that interested in whether this one rich guy (who many argue is an asshole even before this hit) has to go back to doing normal jobs. What I’m interested in is the message this sends. Will people realize that such things are bad and try not to do them, since they could result in a temporary loss of work? Or will they feel vindicated and think they can keep on being abusive as long as they make sure there is no external evidence? > > I’m hoping for the former, but the rhetoric around the situation suggests the latter. And I am not okay with that. Hardwick can do or not do whatever. What you and many are missing, even after it’s been pointed out in the simplest terms possible, is that modern global communications and the ease in which a mob can be whipped into a frenzy is a dangerous weapon. Would you be willing to have your real name, photo, and address associated with every post or comment you’ve ever made on the internet or in real life in this climate? [https://www.thestate.com/news/nation-world/national/article216431945.html](https://www.thestate.com/news/nation-world/national/article216431945.html) This is an example of the sort or nut that has anger control issues. Many more examples of the same sort of nut can be found in our very own Pit. It’s a dangerous world now. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/773 "2018-08-13T03:43:44Z")
Please point to the numbers of how many people whose lives were ruined by false accusations. Check it against the statistics of how many people’s lives were ruined by an abuser who got away with it and went on to abuse others. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/774 "2018-08-13T03:54:33Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > Please point to the numbers of how many people whose lives were ruined by false accusations. Check it against the statistics of how many people’s lives were ruined by an abuser who got away with it and went on to abuse others. Is God compiling these statistics? Since almost all of these allegations are based solely upon uncorroborated alleged victim testimony, who judges the outcome? Juries? The public? ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/775 "2018-08-13T04:23:03Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > Please point to the numbers of how many people whose lives were ruined by false accusations. Check it against the statistics of how many people’s lives were ruined by an abuser who got away with it and went on to abuse others. You seem to be preoccupied with statistical analysis as opposed to the actual specifics of the case. This isn’t about meeting quotas. It’s about people and the consequences of their actions. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/776 "2018-08-13T04:35:16Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > Please point to the numbers of how many people whose lives were ruined by false accusations. Check it against the statistics of how many people’s lives were ruined by an abuser who got away with it and went on to abuse others. Two wrongs don’t make a right. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/777 "2018-08-13T04:38:19Z")
Show me proof this actually happens first. I’ve seen no evidence that Hardwick’s life is “ruined”. He’s still a millionaire living in a mansion, he still has his beautiful wife, and he now still has his job. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/778 "2018-08-13T04:49:01Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > That the #MeToo movement is quite properly holding abusers to account is the positive side of it. But there’s a sinister side to it, too. We know. Everyone knows. This side has been used to dismiss lots and lots of legitimate claims. When false accusations become even a little bit common, we can worry about this. Until then, lots of lives have been destroyed by predatory male behavior. The benefit of the doubt should fall towards the accusers. > [@wolfpup](#): > > The sinister side is that it’s casting such a wide net that almost any male who has ever been in a relationship with a woman that has broken up on less than amicable terms is potentially in the crosshairs of a new and implacable weapon of the social justice brigade, adjudged not in the courtroom but in social media, convictions secured not on the basis of evidence but on unsubstantiated claims and innuendo. Cite that this is happening? > [@wolfpup](#): > > but it’s also created hair-trigger sensitivities and a one-sided power imbalance capable of causing a great deal of harm and injustice. Cite? I’m thinking bullshit here. ---
**Author:** ![Covfefe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Covfefe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covfefe)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/779 "2018-08-13T08:36:27Z")
I don’t worry much about the life or career of someone in the stratosphere of Hardwick being ruined. I worry from the standpoint of attempting to treat others with respect, much in the way we would want to be treated ourselves. Famous people may be wont in privileges they enjoy. At the same time they are still human beings and most of them are familiar with dealing with have been harassed in ways from the general public that are just wrong. Speaking ill of someone who didn’t deserve it is inevitable unfortunately, unless one always withholds judgment. I’m just saying the public should attempt to improve, should balance a goal of mitigating unnecessary errors in judgment with an understanding of why victims commonly haven’t come forward or been heard. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/780 "2018-08-13T09:12:27Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > We know. Everyone knows. This side has been used to dismiss lots and lots of legitimate claims. When false accusations become even a little bit common, we can worry about this. Until then, lots of lives have been destroyed by predatory male behavior. The benefit of the doubt should fall towards the accusers. > > Cite that this is happening? > > Cite? I’m thinking bullshit here. I notice that the detractors here are engaging in the time-honored practice of demanding cites and statistics in an area where they know that no such cites and statistics exist and never can exist. But the Hardwick case alone is evidence that accusations with serious consequences can be based simply on the unverified and _ **unverifiable** _ claims of a single person, often a person predisposed to feelings of malice towards a former partner. Even a person of reasonable integrity might be inclined to embellish their story here and there as they embark on their one-sided social justice crusade; imagine what a vengeful person of lesser integrity might do. If you want a cite for a wide net being cast, just look around right here on this board. After the Bill Cosby and Harvey Weinstein stories hit the news, we’ve had a whole series of “And now …” threads, implying that an apparently endless series of men were exactly like those two, criminal sexual predators. I realize that posters were just saying, well, here’s another one that’s been accused, but it’s hard to shake the idea of equivalence, which is indeed exactly what “#MeToo” is supposed to mean. And that’s just what happened to Hardwick, who was fortunately prominent enough and well established enough that he was exonerated instead of being thrown under the bus as most of us would be. And whatever his faults, he does seem to be in a good relationship at the moment. We’ll never know the real story of whatever the hell his problems with Dykstra were, and that’s kind of the point. Yet for most of us, it could have been a career ender. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153.md?page=38) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153.md?page=40)