# And Now Chris Hardwick \[domestic abuse allegations\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 15, 2018, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153 "2018-06-15T15:28:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 41
**Author:** ![Doubticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@Doubticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doubticus)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/801 "2018-08-14T00:02:07Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Sexual assault is rape. She claimed he raped her. Except she said she let him sexually assault her, which suggests she consented, which means it isn’t rape. This lack of precision on Chloe Dykstra’s part is what makes her whole account lack a certain amount of credibility. And when you’re trying to establish guilt or innocence in the realm of something as serious as sexual assault, credibility is everything. To be fair, she never used the word “rape”. Having reread her essay, she said she went along with his unwanted sexual advances because of his “veiled threats” of leaving her if she didn’t consent. Apparently, she is equating this emotional manipulation to “sexual assault”. And I, like you, believe this imprecise language is problematic. It is quite possible that Chris Hardwick was a dick and mistreated her and in her diminished state didn’t stand up to him and let him know it wasn’t okay, but that doesn’t mean he raped her. But the “sexual assault” angle seems to be picked up by all the press headlines. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/802 "2018-08-14T00:11:53Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > So you believe we should automatically believe someone when they tell their story? Why don’t you then believe Chris Hardwick’s story? Or the three other ex-girlfriend’s who spoke up on his behalf? Or his wife? There’s no evidence of dishonesty from them either. Your automatic belief in someone who tells their story seems awfully selective. This has nothing to do with my post. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/803 "2018-08-14T00:47:32Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > … People lie. People fabricate. People try to cover their asses all the time. Why is it so difficult for you to comprehend that an ex-girlfriend might have ulterior motives? And especially four years later out of the blue? Today we have news of an accusation that contains some notable parallels to the Dykstra/Hardwick situation: > [@](#): > > Rep. Keith Ellison is denying allegations made public on Saturday that he physically abused an ex-girlfriend. > > The allegations were detailed in a Facebook post by Austin Monahan, the son of Ellison’s former girlfriend Karen Monahan. The son wrote that he found a video on his mother’s computer in 2017 that allegedly showed the Minnesota Democrat attempting to drag his mother off a bed while cursing at her. > > … **CNN has asked to view the video, but Monahan said she could not produce it.** > > The charges came just days before a Tuesday primary election in which Ellison is running to be the Democratic nominee for Minnesota’s attorney general… [https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/13/politics/keith-ellison-denies-allegations/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/13/politics/keith-ellison-denies-allegations/index.html) The accuser claims to have evidence of abuse, but will not produce it (the article goes on to describe the problems the accuser says she has in finding the evidence she says she has). The accusation is coming some time after the relationship ended (the first accusation was apparently made privately to Ellison last December). The accusation has the potential to have serious consequences for the life and career of the person accused. In this case the person accused has been in the public eye for a long time. Why make the accusation right before a primary election? A reasonable person would wonder if there is malice here, rather than a sincere and honest attempt to warn others about alleged propensity to abusive conduct. I’d guess that as the election season gears up, there will be other accusations made against other politicians. All should be listened to fully and fairly. Any evidence proffered should be examined. Where there is a claim that evidence exists, but the evidence is not produced, that fact should be a part of the assessments we make about the accusations in question. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/804 "2018-08-14T00:51:20Z")
Austin Monahan is clearly telling the truth. He should not be questioned at all, because questioning his story is denigrating him, basically calling him a liar. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/805 "2018-08-14T01:09:30Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > So you’re saying that permitting false accusations will prevent abuse? > > How would that work? If the initial default position we all take is to believe the victim, that will help prevent abuse. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/806 "2018-08-14T01:25:28Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > If the initial default position we all take is to believe the victim, that will help prevent abuse. It will also help increase false allegations. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/807 "2018-08-14T01:29:45Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Sexual assault is rape. She claimed he raped her. Except she said she let him sexually assault her, which suggests she consented, which means it isn’t rape. This lack of precision on Chloe Dykstra’s part is what makes her whole account lack a certain amount of credibility. And when you’re trying to establish guilt or innocence in the realm of something as serious as sexual assault, credibility is everything. I guess that’s why you thought it was a big deal to change “violate” to “assault” in her story but you’re flat out wrong. Sexual assault is not rape. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/808 "2018-08-14T01:56:25Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > It will also help increase false allegations. Maybe so. But it’s worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/809 "2018-08-14T04:23:10Z")
> [@Doubticus](#): > > To be fair, she never used the word “rape”. Having reread her essay, she said she went along with his unwanted sexual advances because of his “veiled threats” of leaving her if she didn’t consent. Apparently, she is equating this emotional manipulation to “sexual assault”. And I, like you, believe this imprecise language is problematic. It is quite possible that Chris Hardwick was a dick and mistreated her and in her diminished state didn’t stand up to him and let him know it wasn’t okay, but that doesn’t mean he raped her. But the “sexual assault” angle seems to be picked up by all the press headlines. And with good reason. I believe her exact words were “I let him sexually assault me,” which in itself is contradictory. Legally the words sexual assault instead of rape today, so she was definitely sending a mixed message, intentionally or not. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/810 "2018-08-14T04:24:37Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This has nothing to do with my post. So? Why don’t you answer the question? Why is your belief in someone’s story so selective? ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/811 "2018-08-14T04:28:01Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I guess that’s why you thought it was a big deal to change “violate” to “assault” in her story but you’re flat out wrong. Sexual assault is not rape. It certainly is. That’s what the term is in law now. “I let him sexually assault me.” What do you think she was trying to say when she wrote this? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/812 "2018-08-14T04:30:12Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > It certainly is. That’s what the term is in law now. No, it’s not. In some jurisdictions, rape is a type of sexual assault. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/813 "2018-08-14T04:57:52Z")
Which is an irrelevant discussion. If consent is present, then ; not a crime. The law does not care why a person refuses to give consent. Only that they did not. Same way a the law does not care why person consents, only that they did. Similarly simply stating “coercion, or threats”, “veiled” or not does not vitiate consent. It has to either be unlawful on its own or objectively unreasonable. Threatening to end a relationship is neither. Might be assholish. Not unlawful. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/814 "2018-08-14T05:02:48Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > The law does not care why a person refuses to give consent. Only that they did not. Same way a the law does not care why person consents, only that they did. Well, that’s not entirely true. The law recognizes a number of situations where consent is not valid. Minors, most obviously, but also consent attained through coercion or threats of violence is often not legally valid consent. “Sleep with me or I’ll break up with you,” I agree, should generally not fall under that category. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/815 "2018-08-14T09:16:52Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > So? Why don’t you answer the question? Why is your belief in someone’s story so selective? When did you stop molesting sheep? If you can figure out why you don’t want to answer that question, then you’ll realize why I didn’t answer your bullshit question. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/816 "2018-08-14T12:11:57Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Well, that’s not entirely true. The law recognizes a number of situations where consent is not valid. Minors, most obviously, but also consent attained through coercion or threats of violence is often not legally valid consent. > > “Sleep with me or I’ll break up with you,” I agree, should generally not fall under that category. :dubious: Did you not read the rest of my post? I said basically that. Back in law school in the mid 2000’s, our University had a sexual assault awareness and support office. One of our regular communications to them would be "\* what you have written in your literature and the examples given are **not** rape or sexual assault as you claim please fix that \*. Certainly, #MeToo has rightly raised the issue of consent to the forefront. Plus our clinic did fantastic work. But, let’s maintain an understanding of what is coercion. ETA: And remember that a person can be an abuser, without once undertaking an act or omission which falls foul of the criminal code. There is no point in trying to paint some conduct as criminal when it does not have to be to be abusive. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/817 "2018-08-14T15:34:31Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > When did you stop molesting sheep? If you can figure out why you don’t want to answer that question, then you’ll realize why I didn’t answer your bullshit question. A very strange answer to a very straightforward question. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/818 "2018-08-14T16:01:05Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > A very strange answer to a very straightforward question. Okay, I’ll spell it out for you – your question contains a false assumption, and thus I have no way of answering it. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/819 "2018-08-14T16:26:35Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Austin Monahan is clearly telling the truth. He should not be questioned at all, because questioning his story is denigrating him, basically calling him a liar. Okay then. Of course, Austin Monahan isn’t the victim here nor was he a firsthand witness to the abuse. He saw a video, a video which the actual victim is apparently reluctant or unable to produce (although she has no obligation to provide it to CNN who are not, the last I checked, a law enforcement agency). I believe that he saw a video of a physical altercation between Ellison and his mother. Without the video, however, it’s a tenuous case and the details and context are not clear based on the reported descriptions of events I’ve seen. “Dragging someone off a bed” can cover a range of actions from a mild tussle to extreme violence, a determination affected in part by the actions of the draggee during the event. I shall reserve judgment for now. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/820 "2018-08-14T20:03:00Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Okay, I’ll spell it out for you – your question contains a false assumption, and thus I have no way of answering it. What is the false assumption from your point of view? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153.md?page=40) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153.md?page=42)