# And Now Chris Hardwick \[domestic abuse allegations\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 15, 2018, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153 "2018-06-15T15:28:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 51
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/1001 "2018-08-19T21:14:04Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Cite? The outcome of the investigation is all the cite you need. If he were viewed as a sexual predator, he wouldn’t have been invited back. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/1002 "2018-08-19T21:14:59Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Because climate. #Metoo has been pretty sobering for sexual predators. Why pretend it hasn’t? Barely. We’re maybe a few miles down the road towards a just society, and that road is hundreds or thousands of miles long. Progress has only barely just begun. The vast majority of predators are still facing no consequences for their predation. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/1003 "2018-08-19T21:16:02Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > The outcome of the investigation is all the cite you need. If he were viewed as a sexual predator, he wouldn’t have been invited back. Bullshit. Your trust that their investigation, and AMC’s final decision, was necessarily based on a just outcome, is bullshit, and a big part of why so many people are still abused with little or no recourse. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/1004 "2018-08-19T21:19:30Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Bullshit. Your trust that their investigation, and AMC’s final decision, was necessarily based on a just outcome, is bullshit, and a big part of why so many people are still abused with little or no recourse. And that’s why people are resistant to your point of view. You’d have the consequence of a mere accusation result in a person being unemployable. You understand this is why the modern world, for the most part, has moved beyond The Inquisition, mob justice, vendettas, and witch hunts for justice? ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/1005 "2018-08-19T21:24:48Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Faith in institutions is a huge part of how we got here. No one should have faith in AMC or any large organization to properly handle their own business with regards to sexual assault/harassment/misconduct. No political party, no religion, no broadcast company, no any large organization. Especially when no findings have been released publicly. Ivy Kagan Bierman appears to be a very good lawyer and investigator, especially in matters within the entertainment business realm. If you don’t have faith in her findings, isn’t that much the same thing as doubting a female yet again? [Ivy Kagan Bierman | Loeb & Loeb LLP](https://www.loeb.com/attorney-ivykaganbierman) ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/1006 "2018-08-19T21:26:40Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Did you personally experience their telling you that they found her story to be less than convincing? > > Because they haven’t told any of the rest of us that. No. But you suggesting my assertion is false is very hypocritical of you. I thought it was about believe. Or is that belief theory very selective? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/1007 "2018-08-19T21:26:44Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > The outcome of the investigation is all the cite you need. If they didn’t say “we believe Dyktra was lying” then they didn’t say they believe Dykstra’s was lying. It’s simple as that. > [@](#): > > If he were viewed as a sexual predator, he wouldn’t have been invited back. First, no one has to conclude that Hardwick is a “sexual predator” to believe that Dyktra wasn’t lying. There’s enough people in this very thread who have said that what Dykstra describes isn’t abusive. They might have come to the same conclusion. But the point is they didn’t say _anything_ about the truth or falsity of their claims. Second. Over many decades we know of many powerful men who have been credibly accused of abusive behavior and in the short (or long) run, suffered no consequences. Just because a very small number of famous people are possibly facing some (perhaps temporary) consequences at this moment doesn’t fundamentally change the fact that the vast majority of abusers get away with it, whether or not they’re publicly accused. So another possibility is that they might have concluded that Dykstra told the truth and that Hardwick really is a predator, but on the balance we will continue to make money with him and it will eventually just blow over, because this is enough of an edge case that people will stop paying attention to it. (Just keep my daughter away from him). Which is exactly how corporations have been doing business for centuries, so that wouldn’t exactly be a surprise. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/1008 "2018-08-19T21:29:11Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > And that’s why people are resistant to your point of view. You’d have the consequence of a mere accusation result in a person being unemployable. You understand this is why the modern world, for the most part, has moved beyond The Inquisition, mob justice, vendettas, and witch hunts for justice? …can you point out anywhere in this thread where iiandyiiii has called for Inquisition, mob justice, vendettas, and witch hunts for justice? Because iiandyiiii has scrupulously not called for any of these things throughout this thread. So I would suggest that you aren’t “resistant to iiandyiiii’s point of view” because you don’t actually understand what iiandyiiii’s point of view actually is. The consequences here was not that a “mere accusation result in a person being unemployable.” That didn’t happen here. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/1009 "2018-08-19T21:29:22Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > If you don’t have faith in her findings She didn’t release any findings. So that’s the end of that. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/1010 "2018-08-19T21:29:37Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > And that’s why people are resistant to your point of view. You’d have the consequence of a mere accusation result in a person being unemployable. You understand this is why the modern world, for the most part, has moved beyond The Inquisition, mob justice, vendettas, and witch hunts for justice? This has nothing to do with anything I’ve said. I’ve never suggested anything like this. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/1011 "2018-08-19T21:30:34Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Barely. We’re maybe a few miles down the road towards a just society, and that road is hundreds or thousands of miles long. Progress has only barely just begun. The vast majority of predators are still facing no consequences for their predation. Sadly, that may be true. But companies also don’t want to keep a liability around if it might affect their customer base. That’s why Hardwick was suspended so quickly even though he wasn’t named in the essay. I felt it was premature, but it was what it was. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/1012 "2018-08-19T21:31:03Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Ivy Kagan Bierman appears to be a very good lawyer and investigator, especially in matters within the entertainment business realm. If you don’t have faith in her findings, isn’t that much the same thing as doubting a female yet again? > > [Ivy Kagan Bierman | Loeb & Loeb LLP](https://www.loeb.com/attorney-ivykaganbierman) I don’t have faith in large institutions making decisions based on justice and fairness rather than bottom line. I don’t know why anyone would. I have faith that they make smart and competent decisions based on profit. That says nothing about justice or fairness or what’s right. And of course, as **Ascenray** noted, she didn’t release any findings. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/1013 "2018-08-19T21:31:35Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > And that’s why people are resistant to your point of view. You’d have the consequence of a mere accusation result in a person being unemployable. You understand this is why the modern world, for the most part, has moved beyond The Inquisition, mob justice, vendettas, and witch hunts for justice? Exactly. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/1014 "2018-08-19T21:35:20Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Exactly. Thank you. **octopus** needs your help in slaying that straw man! Well done! ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/1015 "2018-08-19T21:37:07Z")
Please make a list of people who have become “unemployable” as a result of this case— (Psst. Hardwick is still employed) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/1016 "2018-08-19T21:38:39Z")
My entire message throughout this thread has been “please don’t shit on women (including implying dishonesty) for nothing more than coming forward and talking about their experiences”. And that’s what’s been happening, again and again. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/1017 "2018-08-19T21:42:59Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > My entire message throughout this thread has been “please don’t shit on women (including implying dishonesty) for nothing more than coming forward and talking about their experiences”. And that’s what’s been happening, again and again. God I detest that expression. It’s like Golden Showers only much grosser. Can’t you come up with something better? Questioning? Invalidating? Casting aspersions? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/1018 "2018-08-19T21:44:03Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > God I detest that expression. It’s like Golden Showers only much grosser. Can’t you come up with something better? Questioning? Invalidating? Casting aspersions? Just for you, I’ll try. Please don’t cast aspersions on Dykstra, including implying dishonesty, when all she’s done is tell a story she says is about her experiences. There’s no evidence she’s being dishonest, and it’s wrong (and harmful to society) to continually imply that she is. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/1019 "2018-08-19T21:45:10Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > God I detest that expression. It’s like Golden Showers only much grosser. Can’t you come up with something better? Questioning? Invalidating? Casting aspersions? If only you were even a little bit as repulsed by the actual act as you are by his description of it. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153/1020 "2018-08-19T22:00:01Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …can you point out anywhere in this thread where iiandyiiii has called for Inquisition, mob justice, vendettas, and witch hunts for justice? > > Because iiandyiiii has scrupulously not called for any of these things throughout this thread. So I would suggest that you aren’t “resistant to iiandyiiii’s point of view” because you don’t actually understand what iiandyiiii’s point of view actually is. > > The consequences here was not that a “mere accusation result in a person being unemployable.” That didn’t happen here. Not in those exact words but what do you suggest we call avoiding the proper law enforcement and judicial system route and appealing directly to an internet mob? If you have a better term for that sort of trial and judgement by the general public I’m all ears. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153.md?page=50) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-chris-hardwick-domestic-abuse-allegations/816153.md?page=52)