# And now this - Trumps says, " I've declassified", White House says "No, he didn't"" **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 16, 2020, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-this-trumps-says-ive-declassified-white-house-says-no-he-didnt/923141 "2020-10-16T22:05:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2020, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-this-trumps-says-ive-declassified-white-house-says-no-he-didnt/923141/1 "2020-10-16T22:05:22Z")
Pertaining to Trumps Tweets saying he has declassified, without redaction, all Muller/Russia documents. But the White House and Justice Department said this week those pronouncements didn’t declassify the records. Officials said they never received an order from the President or from Attorney General William Barr, who could also make public more information. “It’s not the White House that declassifies information. It’s the President,” Judge Reggie Walton of the DC District Court in Washington said in a hearing Friday. Trump has been “unambiguous” in wanting declassification of more documents. So, what’s going on here? Information in the docs that will make Trump and/or his cronies look even worse? This should be interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2020, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-this-trumps-says-ive-declassified-white-house-says-no-he-didnt/923141/2 "2020-10-16T23:47:34Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > So, what’s going on here? That’s easy - Loser Donald has no idea what his job is or how to do it. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2020, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-this-trumps-says-ive-declassified-white-house-says-no-he-didnt/923141/3 "2020-10-16T23:51:43Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > Pertaining to Trumps Tweets saying he has declassified, without redaction, all Muller/Russia documents. That’d pretty funny if Trump The Impaired released the unredacted Mueller report. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2020, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-this-trumps-says-ive-declassified-white-house-says-no-he-didnt/923141/4 "2020-10-17T14:19:23Z")
I really don’t understand why the MSM isn’t making more of this “Trump, who has called the Mueller investigation a hoax and witch hunt since day one, put the DOJ in the awkward position of having to tell Judge Walton that the president has no idea what he’s talking about and certainly didn’t mean what he said. That’s what DOJ did on Oct. 13.” However, “Judge Walton refused to take at face value the DOJ’s assertion that the president made false statements when he claimed to have declassified all Russia documents. The judge wants Trump himself to admit that or, in the alternative, to confirm that he wants all “Russia Hoax” documents unredacted—the latter of which would have sweeping implications for the above-described ongoing lawsuits.” Walton gave the WH and DOJ five days to shit or get off the pot. I think they will get off the pot. If Trump is found to be lying in his Tweets about ordering the declassification, so what? Its just one more easily provable lie. On the other hand, if the material is released, the damage to Trump and his cronies could be significant. The interesting part is that Walton is ordering that someone goes on the record saying they conferred with Trump directly. He is forced into actually admitting that he lied (which I don’t think has ever happened) or releasing the material. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2020, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-this-trumps-says-ive-declassified-white-house-says-no-he-didnt/923141/5 "2020-10-17T14:28:01Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > So, what’s going on here? Information in the docs that will make Trump and/or his cronies look even worse? It’s nothing that interesting. Trump just said it to make his base happy. The Trumpists now believe the documents were all declassified and that they prove Biden, Obama and Clinton all committed treason. I’m not stating this metaphorically; have a look at Trump Twitter. Tens of millions of Trumpists truly believe it happened. They don’t know any details, since there are none, but once Trump said he would do it, they accepted on faith that he had and that the documents said what they wanted them to say. It’s now truth to them. It might have put his DOJ in an awkward spot but he doesn’t care, since he’s a sociopath. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2020, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-this-trumps-says-ive-declassified-white-house-says-no-he-didnt/923141/6 "2020-10-17T17:00:59Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The Trumpists now believe the documents were all declassified and that they prove Biden, Obama and Clinton all committed treason. I’m not stating this metaphorically; have a look at Trump Twitter. Tens of millions of Trumpists truly believe it happened. They don’t know any details, since there are none, but once Trump said he would do it, they accepted on faith that he had and that the documents said what they wanted them to say. It’s now truth to them. Yep pretty much this. Along with building the wall, and bringing peace to the middle east, Trump said it, so it is. I’m kinda surprised he doesn’t state that he _has_ locked up Hillary and Obama (all evidence to the contrary). His base would believe him. ---
**Author:** ![SingleMalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/singlemalt/32/3961_2.png) [@SingleMalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleMalt)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2020, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-this-trumps-says-ive-declassified-white-house-says-no-he-didnt/923141/7 "2020-10-17T18:29:48Z")
The DOJ is in an awkward spot, but so is Trump. Judge Walton has ordered the DOJ to obtain a statement directly from Trump clarifying whether his tweets and his statements on Rush Limbaugh’s show were not truthful, or whether he has actually ordered the unredacted declassification of all Russia investigation materials. The DOJ is to present this statement in court next Tuesday. There is currently a FOIA lawsuit for all of the Mueller materials in front of Judge Walton. WaPo paywall warnings apply: > **[U.S. judge: Do Trump’s tweets or White House lawyers speak for president on...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/legal-issues/trump-tweet-declassify-russia-documents/2020/10/16/8846f3c8-0fc8-11eb-8a35-237ef1eb2ef7_story.html)** > > The federal judge criticized the Justice Department’s claim that the president’s words are not to be believed. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-this-trumps-says-ive-declassified-white-house-says-no-he-didnt/923141/8 "2020-10-18T13:57:27Z")
Non-paywalled Politico article: > **[Judge wants to know if Trump is backing off Russia probe declassification](https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/16/judge-trump-russia-probe-declassification-429832)** > > Walton suggests White House counsel’s office may have gone rogue > [@](#): > > A federal judge demanded on Friday that the White House counsel’s office confirm directly with President Donald Trump whether he stands by a series public statements he made declaring that he’d declassified all information related to the probe of alleged Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election. > … > Justice Department attorney Courtney Enlow said the statements of the lawyers involved were entitled to a “presumption of regularity,” essentially that government officials should be taken at their word. > > “That should end the matter,” she said. > > **But the judge suggested such deference wasn’t justified because the president himself had signaled that some rogue elements in the government were resisting his orders.** > > **“How do I know that the statements made by White House counsel are in fact the position of the president? … How can I assume White House counsel is, in fact, acting at the direction of the president? How can I assume that?”** Walton asked, pointing to an interview the president did last Friday with radio host Rush Limbaugh. Bizarre. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-this-trumps-says-ive-declassified-white-house-says-no-he-didnt/923141/9 "2020-10-18T14:08:00Z")
If the judge does rule that the documents need to be released in full, unredacted, how does that actually end up playing out? I’m assuming that there will be appeals, which would end up in SCOTUS. And even if it does legally mandate that they need to be released, how would the courts actually enforce this? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-this-trumps-says-ive-declassified-white-house-says-no-he-didnt/923141/10 "2020-10-18T14:13:05Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > I’m kinda surprised he doesn’t state that he _has_ locked up Hillary and Obama (all evidence to the contrary). His base would believe him. When Trump is in a jail cell, he will tweet that everyone else in the world has finally been locked up in a very large room on the _other_ side of the locked door. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-this-trumps-says-ive-declassified-white-house-says-no-he-didnt/923141/11 "2020-10-18T14:21:34Z")
Yes, [Bonko the Innocent.](https://outsidetheasylum.wordpress.com/who-the-hell-is-john-watson/) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-this-trumps-says-ive-declassified-white-house-says-no-he-didnt/923141/12 "2020-10-18T14:26:04Z")
This is what four years of presidential lying, and presidential conspiracy theories about the “deep state”, has led to. A federal judge can’t trust the word of a lawyer from the DOJ and the White House Counsel, unless it’s proved in court. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-this-trumps-says-ive-declassified-white-house-says-no-he-didnt/923141/13 "2020-10-18T16:22:37Z")
> [@SingleMalt](#): > > The DOJ is in an awkward spot, but so is Trump Oh not at all. In his accustomed and expected form, he will _throw his own WH counsel and DOJ professional staff under the bus_ with ease; he will point to them and the court and say that’s the “deep state” getting in his way. As mentioned earlier, his worshippers already believe he has released the proof of treason on the part of everyone else. He does not _ **care** _ if it can be proven otherwise because he knows _they_ will never believe otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-this-trumps-says-ive-declassified-white-house-says-no-he-didnt/923141/14 "2020-10-18T16:26:10Z")
If that’s the case, then the courts would have little choice but to take the President at his word over that of his lawyers, and release the full unredacted report. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-this-trumps-says-ive-declassified-white-house-says-no-he-didnt/923141/15 "2020-10-18T16:36:53Z")
Or he’ll deny he said he had declassified it and say he said he was declassifying it but did not say when, and there are legal technicalities that is their job not his to handle. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-this-trumps-says-ive-declassified-white-house-says-no-he-didnt/923141/16 "2020-10-18T16:39:27Z")
I’m sure that the courts would be happy to help with that. They already have a FOI request sitting right there. If Trump gives his approval, seems everything should be pretty quick and straightforward from there. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-this-trumps-says-ive-declassified-white-house-says-no-he-didnt/923141/17 "2020-10-18T16:58:03Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > declassifying it but did not say when, Two. Weeks. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-this-trumps-says-ive-declassified-white-house-says-no-he-didnt/923141/18 "2020-10-18T17:07:15Z")
Isn’t that the schedule for his release of his beautiful health care plan that he’s been working on for four years? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-this-trumps-says-ive-declassified-white-house-says-no-he-didnt/923141/19 "2020-10-18T17:36:32Z")
It’s a beautiful plan. You’ll see it in about two weeks. Trump was explaining his big beautiful healthcare plan to a doctor the other day. Big man. Huge hands. The doctor was so amazed that he said to Trump (with tears in his eyes) “This is the bestest plan ever sir!” Then he nominated Trump for another noble prize. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-this-trumps-says-ive-declassified-white-house-says-no-he-didnt/923141/20 "2020-10-18T18:14:30Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > And even if it does legally mandate that they need to be released, how would the courts actually enforce this? Just spitballin’ but I would assume that the federal Freedom of Information statute would give the courts the power to order the department in question to disclose the documents requested in the FOI request. If the department fails to do so, I would assume there are statutory remedies, such as contempt orders. But I’d be interested to hear from someone familiar with the US process. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-this-trumps-says-ive-declassified-white-house-says-no-he-didnt/923141.md?page=2)