# And now: What about all those cops turning their backs on De Blasio? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 27, 2014, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293 "2014-12-27T20:22:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/181 "2014-12-28T23:00:36Z")
Since when in the name of Phred Felps is a funeral an appropriate time for political statements from people in the peanut gallery? Isn’t that Rudy Ghouliani’s job? The only person with any responsibility for the death of the two officers killed himself immediately afterwards. He was insane and what he perceived as injustice in the world caused him to commit terrible violence on two completely innocent people. He was not incited by DeBlasio. If he was incited at all, it was by the various incidents of police using force. As a mentally disturbed person, it was awful that he had access to weapons and not mental health care. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/182 "2014-12-28T23:05:32Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > That whole line of thinking is a problem, though. Sure, it’s insulting when someone implies you are racist. But showing contempt for the other person rather than introspection is a bad idea. Most of the time there is a valid interpretation of what you did or said that is racist, even if that’s not what you meant. Your statement is racist. Is the proper response introspection? > [@](#): > > And I think a lack of introspection is correlated with being racist. Everyone is naturally somewhat racist, and it takes introspection to fix that. No, everyone is not naturally somewhat racist for any meaningful definition of the term. > [@](#): > > And those are direct claims of racism. This is an implication that has been made for years that is pretty much accepted. It has data to back it up, in that black people are overrepresented in arrests. The talk is about a systemic issue, not a personal one. Nobody in particular is being accused. One group being over represented in arrests is not sufficient to sustain a claim of systemic racism. > [@Lobohan](#): > > Unfortunately you haven’t done a great job of making it. So, I’m gonna set aside the verdict and issue cupcakes to the jury. \*\*John’s \*\*point is that people’s issue is not the act of signaling displeasure that’s the problem, it’s the specific issue they are doing so about. \*\*BPC \*\*specifically calls out the issue being focused on, not the act of alleged insubordination itself. Fit’s \*\*John’s \*\*point perfectly. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/183 "2014-12-28T23:06:15Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > There are 4,600 in the state police. Obviously all of them can not be ordered into NYC since they have their own duties. > National Guard MPs still fall under posse comitatis and can not take over civilian policing. Hence the problem with shitcanning the cops en masse. The best that hiz honor could have done was to quietly deal with the problem through the commisioner, I can imagine that the city of new york has a number of areas and postings, that would be ideal for officers that need some attitude adjustments, I dunno making them part of the hooker detail at vice and make em wear wigs and heels. Declan ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/184 "2014-12-29T00:31:02Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > And out and out lies like this - > > just make it worse. This is at best lying by ommission, telling only one side of the story, and more likely outright fantasy. And yet, you wonder why the police might see you as the enemy?? You are so fucking dumb, you don’t deserve a reply, but the stories I told were either personal experiences or I cited them, so either refute my cite or shut the fuck up. It’s astonishing to me you would consider those totally commonplace interactions to be fabrications, but not really because you are a socially inept fool with no ability to gauge what normal humans experience. I mean, for fuck’s sake, I’m a white girl and this shit has happened to me! I have no doubt that you completely dismiss the true personal accounts by Black people describing their police experiences. Yet, you think you have something to add to this conversation. Hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/185 "2014-12-29T00:48:31Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Doesn’t democracy means everyone gets a chance to vote on every issue? It never has. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/186 "2014-12-29T02:00:31Z")
Isn’t trolling supposed to be against the rules here? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/187 "2014-12-29T02:06:06Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Isn’t trolling supposed to be against the rules here? Well, unless you’re trolling the ancient Yuletide carol. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/188 "2014-12-29T02:09:28Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > It was his comment about having to train his kid: “we’ve had to literally train him, as families have all over this city for decades, in how to take special care in any encounter he has with the police officers who are there to protect him.” > > His kid is black and the comment indicates that he thinks NYPD is more likely to do harm to his kid than to help him. > > It was a shameful, ignorant thing to say and I think he should resign his office immediately if not sooner. From my understanding, this is standard procedure for parents of black children – especially young black men. I’ve never known a parent of a black boy that didn’t feel the need to give special emphasis on how to minimize the risk of being shot by police. Whether this feeling is legitimate or not, the perception exists and is likely widespread among parents of black children. These sorts of perceptions are very bad and even dangerous for the police, so for the sake of the cops, I hope they make changes that will address this perception. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/189 "2014-12-29T02:09:45Z")
Is Commissioner Bratton helping or hurting the situation? Where does he stand on all this? News item I just saw today: [NYPD chief says rift between police and mayor ‘will go on for a while’](http://news.yahoo.com/nypd-chief-bratton-rift-de-blasio-go-on-for-a-while-165802150.html) I don’t know enough about what Bratton is saying or doing to have an opinion on this. Anyone with facts, opinions, or discussion about Bratton, what he is saying or doing, or what he could be saying or doing? I think this is worth a thread unto itself, in IMHO, so [I’ve started one here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=744756). ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/190 "2014-12-29T02:12:25Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Are you aware that the Supreme Court has upheld punishments against police officers and other public servants for speech that impedes the efficient functioning of government? How exactly does turning your back on his televised image “impede the efficient functioning of government”? FWIW, I was disgusted by this just as I was by the posturing of Minnesota Democrats who turned the funeral of Paul Wellstone into a political circus, but that does t mean I can’t laugh at the people who foolishly believe the police officers did something they can be disciplined for. ---
**Author:** ![grayhairedmomma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/47e85d/32.png) [@grayhairedmomma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grayhairedmomma)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/191 "2014-12-29T02:42:23Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Whether this feeling is legitimate or not, the perception exists and is likely widespread among parents of black children. These sorts of perceptions are very bad and even dangerous for the police, so for the sake of the cops, I hope they make changes that will address this perception. What the fuck?! These perceptions are dangerous for the police?! Holy Mother of Fuck. Because there are masses of black people killing cops with impunity. Jesus Christ. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/192 "2014-12-29T02:49:39Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > You are so fucking dumb, you don’t deserve a reply, but the stories I told were either personal experiences or I cited them, so either refute my cite or shut the fuck up. > > It’s astonishing to me you would consider those totally commonplace interactions to be fabrications, but not really because you are a socially inept fool with no ability to gauge what normal humans experience. I mean, for fuck’s sake, I’m a white girl and this shit has happened to me! I have no doubt that you completely dismiss the true personal accounts by Black people describing their police experiences. Yet, you think you have something to add to this conversation. > > Hilarious. He has freely admitted that he fully supported the jury in the case of Emmit Till and that he celebrated the killing of Jordan Davis(the kid murdered for playing rap music) because David was “a thug” who deserved to be killed. What do you think his response will be. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/193 "2014-12-29T03:11:17Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > He has freely admitted that he fully supported the jury in the case of Emmit Till You miss out the part where I excoriate the prosecution for failing to give the jury the evidence in their possession that could have lead to a guilty verdict. Such as, among other things, evidence that Till was actually dead, and that the body found was his. Do you think the jury should find someone guilty of murder if they’re not presented with any evidence that there’d actually been a murder? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/194 "2014-12-29T03:26:58Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So the police force - an unelected body of paid civil servants - is “skeptical” of the democratically-elected mayor, and has him over a barrel, and you’re OK with that? > > And _I’m_ the one who gets accused of supporting a “police state”. > [@doreen](#): > > What would be the point? Even if the city won the appeal and was permitted to allow stop and frisk to continue with no changes, de Blasio as the mayor had every right to direct his appointed police commissioner to change the policy. And I’m sure he would have, as he didn’t keep his plans secret during his campaign and still got elected with something like 75% of the vote. Really. The man was elected by a landslide, which normally leads to assume a mandate (but more on that later), and one of his key promises was to ditch “stop and frisk” so why in the world would he want to spend resources to keep fighting FOR it? He would only be accused of deliberately throwing the case. And anyway no individual component of the NYC community is entitled to a privileged veto of a lawful policy decision. > [@](#): > > Which of course doesn’t mean a majority of the population agrees with him about the need for police reforms- but it does suggest that if the majority disagree, they didn’t feel strongly enough about it to vote against him. Which is another thing: that the election had a lower or higher turnout _does not alter the validity of the election result_ but it shows _three out of four_ eligible voters in NYC **did not bother** showing up in the General Election, nor did a similar proportion of the registered Democrats in the Primary, where he got nominated with 40% of the vote (meanwhile only _one out of every eight_ registered Republicans showed up for \*their \*Primary). All these people who were then and are now rending their garments about what a terrible choice he was, _ **where the Hell were they??** _ You basically had just the people with grievances that DeBlasio promised to redress (be it policing practices, minimum wages, charter schools… goddamn carriage horses, fer cryin’ out loud), bothering to show up to vote. Everyone else went “yeah, whatever”. So that’s the policies the police and other city public components have to abide by for four years. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/195 "2014-12-29T03:51:18Z")
It’s been touched upon by several posters, but I have a few questions: 1. DeBlasio is nominally the superior to these police officers by virtue of being their boss’s boss’s boss’s boss. He’s not in a similar position as POTUS being the “commander in chief” of the police department, at least to my knowledge. Do regulations require a rank and file officer to show him respect by standing at attention, or at least not show him disrespect? 2. If respect is required, what are the disciplinary procedures to be followed? The police are civil servants with union contracts. They cannot be fired similar to an “at will” employment where the boss can fire you for any or no reason. Procedures must be followed, and I’m not sure what those are, even assuming that the disrespect is a violation. 3. I suppose that the guy who mows the grass in Central Park can also follow the line of his superiors up to DeBlasio. Must he show the same level of respect? If the mayor walks through central park, must he get off of his lawn mower and stand at attention? The answers to these questions would shed some light on whether they did anything wrong and what discipline is appropriate if they did. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/196 "2014-12-29T03:54:36Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > These back-turning police are acting like they’re above and separate from the general public. They are. The police are separate from the general public and they are above the general public. It’s going to be easier to change that if we all start admitting it, and admitting that we don’t like or want it to be that way. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/197 "2014-12-29T10:37:07Z")
> [@grayhairedmomma](#): > > What the fuck?! These perceptions are dangerous for the police?! Holy Mother of Fuck. Because there are masses of black people killing cops with impunity. Jesus Christ. Well, yeah, they are. The less people trust and respect the police, the harder and more dangerous police work is. I realize that compared to the racism faced by african-americans, this is not a big problem, but that racism isn’t going to get cops to think of their own self-interest. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/198 "2014-12-29T10:58:24Z")
> [@grayhairedmomma](#): > > What the fuck?! These perceptions are dangerous for the police?! Holy Mother of Fuck. Because there are masses of black people killing cops with impunity. Jesus Christ. That’s not why they’re dangerous to police, in my view. They’re dangerous to police because communities that don’t trust police are much harder to police, and much more risky to police. I’m only speaking of how these perceptions affect police – in other posts, I’ve stated on whether I believe these perceptions are valid (and, in my view, they are). I’m simply saying that it’s in the interest of police and police safety to not have the perception that they treat often treat black people unfairly and are more likely to kill black suspects without cause. So it’s in the material interest of police – more than just doing the right thing – to eliminate the perception (which I believe is a valid perception) that they treat black people unfairly and are more likely to kill black suspects without valid cause. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/199 "2014-12-29T15:27:41Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > Fuck these cops, they serve themselves and no one else. They should all be fired, and every one of them should be investigated for police brutality; since they so obviously support it, it stands to reason they’ve engaged in it. Fuck the police, they’re nothing but a gang in blue. If it really was “a few bad apples” they wouldn’t have stood together, en masse, to support police brutality and a lack of accountability. It’s disgusting, these pigs are no angels. I take it you mean the entire NYPD should be canned and investigated by a new force? A sort of Glorious Revolution of the police? I don’t think this is necessarily wrong. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/200 "2014-12-29T15:48:34Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > Q: Its just not conceivable that in a city which does occasionally have parades down 5th, normal citizens might turn their backs as a group when sections of cops march by? Sounds like free speech, or freedom of choice, to me. Do the “normal citizens” have a contract with NYC requiring that they look at each and every parade participant? When the big balloons go by, are spectators contractually required to look at the balloon handlers or the balloon? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293.md?page=11)