# And now: What about all those cops turning their backs on De Blasio? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 27, 2014, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293 "2014-12-27T20:22:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/221 "2014-12-29T17:52:05Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > Nor did any of them say they thought it was a great idea to turn the funeral into a political circus. Which means that nobody except those close to the family has any idea how they felt about it. > [@DSeid](#): > > Are you aware of them saying they approved? Or were consulted? > > Boy, a large part of your social support system, does something rude at your father/husband’s funeral … you going to complain about that in public? Does your silence mean you support it or agree with it? That it did not bother you? (posts shortened) If the media could have gotten a quote, they would have run with it. The families have only to pick up a phone to make their feelings known. But who would they call? The media outlets that are continually demonizing the police, which includes their recently deceased loved ones, for choking a man to death even though that man didn’t die of strangulation? ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/222 "2014-12-29T17:59:27Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > He has freely admitted that he fully supported the jury in the case of Emmit Till and that he celebrated the killing of Jordan Davis(the kid murdered for playing rap music) because David was “a thug” who deserved to be killed. > > What do you think his response will be. Yikes. I knew he was a stupid asshole, but I guess I missed that. Well, my reply wasn’t wasted because my point stands; many people are victimized by the police after calling for help. There are many people who would hesitate before calling the police, including myself, although I fully admit I probably wouldn’t be as likely to be victimized because I’m white. > [@foolsguinea](#): > > I take it you mean the entire NYPD should be canned and investigated by a new force? A sort of Glorious Revolution of the police? > > I don’t think this is necessarily wrong. The term “Glorious Revolution” is pretty dismissive and stupid, but I think the NYPD have shown that they are FAR more concerned with being deferred to as authoritarians than they are with protecting and serving their community. This action, in addition to the “wartime police” comment (which is blood chilling to me), shows that the NYPD is rotten. It’s not a few bad apples; the entire system has serious deep flaws, from the management down. I think in a just world, yes, the entire department would be canned and investigated for the crimes they’ve committed. I’m no fool though, I know that outcome is unlikely bordering on ludicrous. I also realize that there’s no real drive to change this system. It works exactly as it was built to, and while DeBlasio has my respect for speaking the truth, he’s only one man and he can’t change this. Nor can Obama. Body cameras won’t fix this, investigations won’t fix this, hiring more Black cops won’t fix this. The police force is fundamentally, systematically racist and until Americans are willing to look squarely at the history of violence and White Supremacy in this country (it is to laugh) and decide to abandon the privileges of race in order to create a new, just system, it cannot change. It’s all just band-aids over a gaping wound. So, yes, I suppose I _do_ want that “Glorious Revolution”. Laugh away. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/223 "2014-12-29T18:00:14Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (posts shortened) > > If the media could have gotten a quote, they would have run with it. The families have only to pick up a phone to make their feelings known. But who would they call? The media outlets that are continually demonizing the police, which includes their recently deceased loved ones, for choking a man to death even though that man didn’t die of strangulation? Could you kindly give examples of the “media outlets that are continually demonizing the police,” specifically giving examples of the demonization they have done? ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/224 "2014-12-29T18:00:44Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > I was confused by Donald Rump’s post as well. But he meant “pro-reform,” not just “pro-police.”\* pro- police-reform.\* Yes, thank you. I meant pro “police reform.” ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/225 "2014-12-29T18:38:24Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > Are police denying that there is a problem? You admit that you don’t know what message the police are trying to send but, regardless of police actually meant, you believe that police are acting stupidly. Let me reframe what I said so it’s easier for you to understand. You, **doorhinge** , deny that there is a problem with how the justice system treats minorities. You’re either clueless, have no morals worth a damn, or you support inequality. I don’t know which of those actually reflects what is going on in your head – my assumption is that you’re just clueless. But by denying reality (such as that Eric Garner’s death was a homicide, but trying to deflect that into making the homicide his fault because of his weight or something), you present yourself as supporting an unequal justice system that treats people better or worse depending on what race they are. Is that what you want to be known for? Similar to the police who participated in the protest. Maybe they are all conservatives who simply hate Democratic politicians, maybe they have a more nuanced criticism of de Blasio, or maybe they think an unequal, racist justice system is a good thing. By protesting someone who speaks out in favor of equal protection under the law, they are casting their lot with the worst elements of society, whether they intend to or not. Just like you. Now, do I honestly believe that you and the police are standing up in favor of racism? In my opinion, not intentionally. But your ilk have made wild accusations that anyone who supports peaceful protests and civil rights is actually in favor of looting and violence, I shall cry crocodile tears for you if your penchant for baseless statements and character assassination turns around and bites you in the ass with you being regarded as supporting racist policies. By refusing to accept fairly light-handed criticism of how police deal with the issue of race, the PBA and those who wish to align themselves with such extremists will perpetuate the idea that they do, in fact, support unfair law enforcement based on race. That’s for sure, and that’s why the NYPD will lose out in the long run if they don’t change their tune. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/226 "2014-12-29T18:40:33Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Could you kindly give examples of the “media outlets that are continually demonizing the police,” specifically giving examples of the demonization they have done? I think he means stories like [this](http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/on-racial-issues-america-is-divided-both-black-and-white-and-red-and-blue/2014/12/26/3d2964c8-8d12-11e4-a085-34e9b9f09a58_story.html), in which the media is reporting that police are not viewed favorably by 101% of the population. ---
**Author:** ![Fallen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@Fallen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fallen)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/227 "2014-12-29T18:57:16Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And their employer, the mayor of New York, has a right to fire them for insubordination, and there is nothing you can do about that. It (arguably) might be nice if it worked that way, but I don’t know of any such power. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/228 "2014-12-29T19:04:46Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (posts shortened) > > If the media could have gotten a quote, they would have run with it. The families have only to pick up a phone to make their feelings known. But who would they call? The media outlets that are continually demonizing the police, which includes their recently deceased loved ones, for choking a man to death even though that man didn’t die of strangulation? All of the media demonizes police? Pat Lynch never gets on the the local TV stations? They could have gotten a statement out through him. They couldn’t have called the NY Post or Fox News? Now you’re being ridiculous. Nobody except those closest to the family knows how they feel and they have apparently decided not to share their feelings, whatever they are, more widely. You saying “But who would they call” has as much basis in fact as I would have if I said “They were afraid the officers would abandon them if they made their feelings known.” You will notice I didn’t say that. Because I don’t know how they feel about it. Neither do you and neither do those officers who turned their backs. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/229 "2014-12-29T20:31:35Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I think he means stories like [this](http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/on-racial-issues-america-is-divided-both-black-and-white-and-red-and-blue/2014/12/26/3d2964c8-8d12-11e4-a085-34e9b9f09a58_story.html), in which the media is reporting that police are not viewed favorably by 101% of the population. Not quite sure what you find in that article that demonizes anybody or how you interpret that article as being anything other than straightforward with how different parts of the public view the police. Overall a narrow majority believes that the criminal justice system treats Blacks and Whites equally but there are large differences between groups. Only 21% of Blacks believe it and among Whites it varies by party with only 30% of White Democrats believing the two groups are treated fairly and 66% of Republicans believing they are. Interestingly though that means that a third of even White Republicans do not believe that Blacks are treated equal to Whites by the criminal justice system. What is “demonizing” about reporting that poll (and how in heck do you read it as saying something it in no way says)? Nearly half of all Americans do not believe that the criminal justice system treats Blacks equally. And Blacks who have actually lived the experience overwhelmingly state the system treats them unequally. What seems to be the case is that rural and suburban Whites (majority GOP) believe that Blacks are treated equally based on … well … not much to base it on really. They just believe it to be the case. Those in urban environments, White Democrats and Blacks, who see actually experience the treatment, say uh, no. So really it is very likely that the vast majority of those being policed in urban environments, White and Black both, believes that they are treated differently based on the color of their skin. Now maybe those folks are all delusional and they are actually all being treated equally. I doubt it, but let’s go with that. This entrenched belief of a majority who you police is still a problem for those who do the policing and behaving in a manner that states that addressing those concerns is a horrible thing to do … nothing to see here and move along, if you know what is good for you … is not in their own best interests let alone in society’s. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/230 "2014-12-29T21:18:36Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > 100% of the NYPD is some shade of blue. > > CMC fnord! Ah, yes, once a non-white citizen joins the force they instantly turn racist against all non-white people. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Actually, what I find ironic here is how the SDMB is suddenly the model of deference to authority, with calls for mass firings without even understanding if there is a fireable offense involved. In this thread is a lot of “good progressive liberals” who seem to be dreaming of yon good old days of Herr Hitler. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/231 "2014-12-29T21:23:41Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Not quite sure what you find in that article that demonizes anybody or how you interpret that article as being anything other than straightforward with how different parts of the public view the police. I’m not **Ravenman** , but judging from the way he framed it (and from the fact that he _is_ one of the sharper tools in the shed around here), I’m sure he didn’t regard it as demonizing in the least, just that **doorhinge** might take it that way because it related to recent controversies about police conduct without being ‘rah-rah police.’ ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/232 "2014-12-29T21:32:17Z")
Yes, you got it precisely. And thank you! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/233 "2014-12-29T21:51:01Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Could you kindly give examples of the “media outlets that are continually demonizing the police,” specifically giving examples of the demonization they have done? I’d like to see that too. A local place I get morning coffee carries New York newspapers and both the NY Daily News and NY Post covers for the past week have been desperate attempts to paint protesters as thugs and murderers. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/234 "2014-12-29T22:26:51Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Yes, you got it precisely. And thank you! My apologies. Not as sharp of one of the tools in the shed as I thought I was, I guess! ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/235 "2014-12-30T00:39:01Z")
Copdom is not some snooty fraternity full of spoiled rich-kids. The guys are public employees who should show respect for their superiors. Those who do not need to be shitcanned. I’m sure there are plenty of young unemployed blacks and hispanics who would happily fill out the holes in the ranks. ---
**Author:** ![buddy431](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6a8cbe/32.png) [@buddy431](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddy431)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/236 "2014-12-30T00:42:41Z")
Since “free speech” has been brought up, I thought I’d just point to the controlling case law on the issue, which is [Garcetti v. Ceballos](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garcetti_v._Ceballos). The court ruled (5-4) that a public employee could be reprimanded for any speech pursuant to their professional duties. Now, this was a controversial ruling, and I happen to disagree with it (I agree with Steven’s dissent that there is no categorical difference between words issued with whether it’s related to your duties, and that a balancing test should be applied), but it is the current law. Now, the original case had a district attorney disciplined for questioning the legitimacy of a warrant. I don’t know for sure whether the current action would be considered to be related to their professional duties - maybe a lawyer could chime in with how this ruling has been applied. In any case, it wouldn’t be smart of just go fire them, but I would like to think that in most cases the supervisors would have a private talking to with the officers about how they should act in uniform. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/237 "2014-12-30T01:34:45Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Copdom is not some snooty fraternity full of spoiled rich-kids. The guys are public employees who should show respect for their superiors. Those who do not need to be shitcanned. I’m sure there are plenty of young unemployed blacks and hispanics who would happily fill out the holes in the ranks. Sadly, there aren’t. They NYPD, NYFD, NYEMS and others are trying hard to add diversity to their ranks, but it’s a slow climb towards reflecting actual city demographics. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/238 "2014-12-30T01:59:37Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Thinking about this further, the main issue with the PBA and this protest isn’t the fact that a lot of police did something very disrespectful to the elected leader of their city. It’s that the protest appears to be making the statement that the police, in general, deny that there is any problem with how they treat African Americans. I’m not sure that actually is the message that many police officers intended to send, but when police protest someone for saying that treatment of minorities by the justice system must be improved, that’s the real message they are sending. > > We’ve heard a lot of conservatives get all foamy at the mouth that any protest against discrimination by the justice system against minorities is actually an endorsement of riots, looting, violence, and so on. Well, if that’s the card that conservatives are going to play, it isn’t going to take long before the sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander: if police protest anyone who opposes unfair treatment of minorities, then the police doing the protesting are throwing their lot in with racists who want African Americans and Hispanics to be oppressed. In the minds of some, the police saying that they were “thrown under the bus” is going to be just as much a metaphor for support for racial discrimination as was the phrase “states rights” was 50 years ago. > > This, my friends, is exactly why hysterical accusations like “peaceful protesters and politicians are actually supporter of looting and violence” should be booed and jeered out of public discourse – because it just breeds the same type of hysterical counter-charges, along the lines that such protests by police show that they have more affinity for protecting bad, racist cops who are their compatriots than to the principle of equal protection of the law and racial equality. > > Contrary to what the conservatives in this thread think, I think the NYPD is going to come out the big loser in the public’s esteem over the long run. Maybe it needs to happen. I think many departments now need to stop militarizing, and they need to do a serious house cleaning to weed out the bad ones. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/239 "2014-12-30T02:01:11Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > I’d like to see that too. A local place I get morning coffee carries New York newspapers and both the NY Daily News and NY Post covers for the past week have been desperate attempts to paint protesters as thugs and murderers. Seen it out here too, just not as much. But then the NY Daily News and the NY Post are fvcking rags anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/240 "2014-12-30T02:02:22Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > Sadly, there aren’t. They NYPD, NYFD, NYEMS and others are trying hard to add diversity to their ranks, but it’s a slow climb towards reflecting actual city demographics. Well, the culture problem isn’t just between cops and _external_ minorities is it? [Black officers group wants Halstead fired](http://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/crime/article3870355.html) > [@](#): > > The president of a group representing minority police officers is calling for Fort Worth Police Chief Jeff Halstead’s termination, saying he has “irreparably harmed the careers of many minority officers.” > > Sgt. Roy Hudson, president of the Fort Worth Black Law Enforcement Officers’ Association, made the request Friday afternoon after releasing an earlier statement critical of a recent outside investigation into grievances filed by three black officers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293.md?page=13)