# And now: What about all those cops turning their backs on De Blasio? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 27, 2014, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293 "2014-12-27T20:22:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/241 "2014-12-30T02:06:14Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Well, the culture problem isn’t just between cops and _external_ minorities is it? > [Black officers group wants Halstead fired](http://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/crime/article3870355.html) Obviously those cops are just thugs and murderers. Derp. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/242 "2014-12-30T02:39:13Z")
> [@buddy431](#): > > Since “free speech” has been brought up, I thought I’d just point to the controlling case law on the issue, which is [Garcetti v. Ceballos](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garcetti_v._Ceballos). The court ruled (5-4) that a public employee could be reprimanded for any speech pursuant to their professional duties. Now, this was a controversial ruling, and I happen to disagree with it (I agree with Steven’s dissent that there is no categorical difference between words issued with whether it’s related to your duties, and that a balancing test should be applied), but it is the current law. What “professional duties” were being “pursued” in the case under discussion here? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/243 "2014-12-30T03:08:12Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What “professional duties” were being “pursued” in the case under discussion here? Disrespecting the family of the officers that were killed, at the funeral? They pre-empted it to behave like spoiled brats. It’s simple. Exercise all the _free speechin’_ you want. But don’t turn a funeral into a circus, and don’t be wearing the uniform when you do it. Because then you are pretending it is an official position, and using the uniform (pretense of authority) to do it. Basic Ethics 101 ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/244 "2014-12-30T04:25:15Z")
I’d be interested to know if those who are pushing the insubordination angle would support disciplining all public employees who go on strike as well. That seems quite a bit more overt and impactful than simply facing away from an image of the mayor. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/245 "2014-12-30T06:23:21Z")
The cops have an explicit right to assemble peaceably to petition for a redress of grievance. Whatever I may think of the timing and setting of their demonstration, I strongly disagree with any sanction or penalty for it. I am surprised, of course, that the Mayor could reach out with his mind all the way to Baltimore and seize a mentally unstable man to do his bidding. No way he could do such a thing, so it must have been Obama. Voodoo originated in Kenya, you know. That’s a true fact, you could look it up. Ghoulggle it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/246 "2014-12-30T06:29:39Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Disrespecting the family of the officers that were killed, at the funeral? Attending that funeral was not a professional duty. But you know that, and are just making something up because you really, really want these guys to be punished. They won’t be, of course, and you know that, too. > [@](#): > > It’s simple. Exercise all the _free speechin’_ you want. But don’t turn a funeral into a circus, and don’t be wearing the uniform when you do it. Because then you are pretending it is an official position, and using the uniform (pretense of authority) to do it. > > Basic Ethics 101 Since when was “basic ethics” a part of the constitution? Nor is “turing a funeral into a circus”. Those are social norms, not constitutional prescriptions. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/247 "2014-12-30T07:47:18Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > Sadly, there aren’t. They NYPD, NYFD, NYEMS and others are trying hard to add diversity to their ranks, but it’s a slow climb towards reflecting actual city demographics. Well, it’s difficult to attract somebody to work in a job that they’re used to viewing as the enemy. And it is difficult to see as being “on your side” someone who calls you “ma’am” if they think you’re a white citizen but stares at you like you haven’t showered in years if they think you’re one of “dem imgrants”. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/248 "2014-12-30T08:34:28Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Attending that funeral was not a professional duty. But you know that, and are just making something up because you really, really want these guys to be punished. They won’t be, of course, and you know that, too. Standing around in uniform sounds a little like a professional duty. > [@](#): > > Since when was “basic ethics” a part of the constitution? Nor is “turing a funeral into a circus”. Those are social norms, not constitutional prescriptions. I, for one, don’t think they did anything unconstitutional. I think they’re petulant cockholes. Does anyone know if you’re required to not act like a cunt while in uniform in NYC? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/249 "2014-12-30T08:42:14Z")
It’s NYC, they joke that they consider “being an asshole” a requirement for residency. Not everybody I’ve encountered in NYC was an asshole, but those who were appeared to revel on it. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/250 "2014-12-30T08:53:03Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > every one of them should be investigated for police brutality; since they so obviously support it, it stands to reason they’ve engaged in it. What bizarre logic is this? ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/251 "2014-12-30T09:42:28Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I’d be interested to know if those who are pushing the insubordination angle would support disciplining all public employees who go on strike as well. That seems quite a bit more overt and impactful than simply facing away from an image of the mayor. The issue here is the overt mass display of contempt for the mayor, and the various implications of that, that have been pointed out throughout this thread. That is not at all the same thing as a typical strike by unionized workers, which isn’t generally seen as a display of contempt in the same way as this. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/252 "2014-12-30T13:06:40Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Standing around in uniform sounds a little like a professional duty. Interestingly enough, it appears that [standing around in uniform](http://http://nypost.com/2014/12/29/arrests-plummet-following-execution-of-two-cops/) is now the bulk of a NYPD officer’s professional duty. One might argue that disrespecting the mayor isn’t a fireable offense, but I think not doing your fucking job is very much a fireable offense. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/253 "2014-12-30T13:38:03Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Ah, yes, once a non-white citizen joins the force they instantly turn racist against all non-white people. {…} I seriously doubt that the NYPD is any more racist than the general population. In fact it might be less racist, given that the NYPD actually has contact with the racial groups that the general population is racist against. This probably leads to a more nuanced understanding of people than the general population might have. However, the reality is that the overwhelming majority of the NYPD, and all other police forces, do see the world as divided between the uniforms and the civilians. When push comes to shove that loyalty is a necessary “evil” . . . but it doesn’t make it not “evil”. See: [Frank Serpico’s bad ear](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Serpico#Career). Since such subtleties are obviously lost on you; Hitler hitler hitler Hitler hitler HITLER hitler! Maybe you understand that? CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/254 "2014-12-30T14:00:27Z")
This whole situation is really offensive. De Blasio hasn’t done anything wrong from what I see. Most people with black children have to have that talk about how to deal with the police, because police can be scary and abusive if you are considering among societies margins. Now the cops are blaming the mayor instead of themselves. Typical bully behavior. Some cops demand unconditional support from society, even if they have done many things to damage their own reputation. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/255 "2014-12-30T14:37:48Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > This whole situation is really offensive. De Blasio hasn’t done anything wrong from what I see. Most people with black children have to have that talk about how to deal with the police, because police can be scary and abusive if you are considering among societies. Well, the conservative umbrage over de Blasio admitting to having The Talk is that they don’t believe The Talk is warranted by the facts. The Talk, to these conservatives, is inherently a vile stereotype against cops. They view the idea that blacks are at greater risk than whites of being treated unfairly or harmed by the police without cause as an offensive slur against police that was basically made up by liberal politicians (Obama and Holder especially), the media, and agitators like Al Sharpton. To these conservatives, the fact that lots and lots of black families share this perception says more about the ignorance, blame-shifting, and search for victimhood of black people than it does about cops. That’s the view, anyway, I’ve gotten from my dear, beloved in-laws the past two weeks. I think they’re full of shit, but it’s very difficult to shake people from this mentality. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/256 "2014-12-30T17:11:26Z")
> [@Donald\_Rump](#): > > That’s the view, anyway, I’ve gotten from my dear, beloved in-laws the past two weeks. I think they’re full of shit, but it’s very difficult to shake people from this mentality. You could try [evidence](http://www.propublica.org/article/deadly-force-in-black-and-white). > [@](#): > > Young black males in recent years were at a far greater risk of being shot dead by police than their white counterparts – 21 times greater, according to a ProPublica analysis of federally collected data on fatal police shootings. It wouldn’t do much for my conservative relatives, I know, but maybe you’ll have better luck. (There are issues with this analysis, which are noted in the article, mainly stemming from the fact that there’s no mandatory reporting of fatalities caused by police; it’s all voluntary which could skew the numbers. I think, and the authors agree, that the difference is far too vast to be accountable to insufficient data alone) ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/257 "2014-12-31T01:41:04Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Attending that funeral was not a professional duty. But you know that, and are just making something up because you really, really want these guys to be punished. They won’t be, of course, and you know that, too. > Since when was “basic ethics” a part of the constitution? Nor is “turning a funeral into a circus”. Those are social norms, not constitutional prescriptions. I knew that, I was being sarcastic. Also I know the difference between the Constitution and basic human decency. Just because it is not illegal or unconstitutional, does not mean it isn’t extremely bad form. You can be fired or disciplined for a lot of things that are not mentioned in or protected by the Constitution. Or, as Lobohan said in post 248… something about stupid cock holes. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/258 "2014-12-31T01:47:55Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I knew that, I was being sarcastic. > > Also I know the difference between the Constitution and basic human decency. Just because it is not illegal or unconstitutional, does not mean it isn’t extremely bad form. You can be fired or disciplined for a lot of things that are not mentioned in or protected by the Constitution. Oh. Nevermind! ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/259 "2014-12-31T01:53:09Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Interestingly enough, it appears that [standing around in uniform](http://http://nypost.com/2014/12/29/arrests-plummet-following-execution-of-two-cops/) is now the bulk of a NYPD officer’s professional duty. > > One might argue that disrespecting the mayor isn’t a fireable offense, but I think not doing your fucking job is very much a fireable offense. They stand around real good, when they should be doing something, but then are top notch apparently when it comes to “being overzealous” against unarmed suspects. > **[City says cops had no duty to protect subway hero who subdued killer](https://nypost.com/2013/01/27/city-says-cops-had-no-duty-to-protect-subway-hero-who-subdued-killer/)** > > He says he put his life on the line to stop a killer — and claims cops sat back and watched. But city lawyers are arguing that the police had no legal duty to protect Joseph Lozito, the Long Island… > [@](#): > > He says he put his life on the line to stop a killer — and claims cops sat back and watched. > > But city lawyers are arguing that the police had no legal duty to protect Joseph Lozito, the Long Island dad stabbed seven times trying to subdue madman Maksim Gelman — a courtroom maneuver the subway hero calls “disgraceful.” > > A judge is currently deciding whether Lozito, who sued the city last year for failing to prevent the attack, will get his day in court. > > The drug-fueled Gelman had fatally stabbed three people in Brooklyn and killed another with a car during a 28-hour rampage when he entered an uptown No. 3 train on Feb. 12, 2011. > > Police officers Terrance Howell and Tamara Taylor were part of a massive NYPD manhunt. They were in the operator’s cab, watching the tracks between Penn Station and 42nd Street for any sign of the fugitive. Lozito was seated next to the cab. > > In the official NYPD account and Howell’s own affidavit, Howell heroically tackled and subdued the killer. But Lozito tells a different story. > > The 42-year-old mixed-martial-arts fan says he watched Gelman approach the cab window, barking: “Let me in!” Gelman even claimed to be a cop, but a dismissive Howell turned away, he says. > > Gelman walked off. A straphanger recognizing Gelman tried to alert the cops, but was also rebuffed. A minute later, Gelman returned and set his sights on the 6-foot-2, 270-pound Lozito. > > “You’re going to die,” Gelman announced — then stabbed him in the face. > > Lozito leapt from his seat and lunged at the 23-year-old Gelman as the psycho sliced at him. > > “Most of my wounds are in the back of my head,” Lozito said. “He got to the back of my head because my left shoulder [was] in his waist.” > > In his account, Lozito pinned Gelman to the floor, disarming him. Howell then emerged from the booth, tapping Lozito’s shoulder: “You can get up now,” he said. > > “By the time he got there, the dirty work was already done,” Lozito said. > > Gelman was convicted in the spree — which left his girlfriend, her mother, his stepfather and a pedestrian dead, and five others injured. > > Lozito says a grand-jury member later told him Howell admitted on the stand that he hid during the attack because he thought Gelman had a gun. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/260 "2014-12-31T07:31:29Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Interestingly enough, it appears that [standing around in uniform](http://http://nypost.com/2014/12/29/arrests-plummet-following-execution-of-two-cops/) is now the bulk of a NYPD officer’s professional duty. > > One might argue that disrespecting the mayor isn’t a fireable offense, but I think not doing your fucking job is very much a fireable offense. In short, the NYPD is striking because their feelings are hurt by something a politician said. How any conservative law-and-order type can be ok with this is beyond me. Can we drop the charade of calling these people New York’s “finest?” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293.md?page=14)