# And now: What about all those cops turning their backs on De Blasio? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 27, 2014, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293 "2014-12-27T20:22:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/281 "2014-12-31T18:57:13Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Well, protesters want cops to quit fighting crime You’ve got to be fucking kidding me. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/282 "2014-12-31T19:17:00Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Well, protesters want cops to quit fighting crime, and Blasio sided with the protesters, so now cops aren’t fighting crime. Isn’t this what the protesters wanted? So I guess this is the new conservative straw man _du jour_. Protesters don’t want cops to quit fighting crime. Protesters want cops to fight crime without unnecessarily killing or brutalizing people. They want cops to stop treating minorities unfairly. The notion that police either change absolutely nothing in the way they do their work OR they “quit fighting crime” is a false choice set up to preclude any discussion of police reform. It’s the same demagoguery that conservatives are fairly good at spotting when it comes to teachers shrilly labeling any reformer as “anti-teacher,” yet to which they’re totally blind when it comes to the police, even when the transparency of the ploy ought to be smacking them in the face. The criticism that de Blasio emboldened the protesters is particularly absurd. Any effort on his part to suppress and/or discredit the protesters would more likely than not have made things worse, not better. It would have underscored some protesters’ narrative of “us vs them,” invited further radicalization of the protests, and would have increased the likelihood of violent clashes between police and protesters. Bill de Blasio, more than anyone else involved, would bear the responsibility for protests devolving into full-blown race riots. One might even say in that event he would have “blood on his hands.” He did the right thing to give them breathing space to vent their anger, and the protesters who turned violent were arrested. I don’t even _like_ de Blasio (I voted for Lhota) but the conservative narrative on all this is truly stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/283 "2014-12-31T19:28:52Z")
> [@Donald\_Rump](#): > > Why isn’t it a strike? > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Because they are still working. The relevant section of [the New York state law prohibiting public-employee strikes](http://www.perb.ny.gov/stat.asp): > [@](#): > > 1. The term “strike” means any strike _or other concerted stoppage of work or slowdown_ by public employees. If de Blasio decides that he needs to bring the hammer down, he has them dead to rights. Personally, I’d start with less extreme pressure (e.g. start working on a “report” on the issue of whether NYC really needs quite so many police, with report writers and delivery date selected so as to make it clear that the point of the exercise is to provide cover for major cutbacks if these guys don’t back down and start respecting the people’s elected representatives PDQ). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/284 "2014-12-31T20:05:43Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > The relevant section of [the New York state law prohibiting public-employee strikes](http://www.perb.ny.gov/stat.asp): Police always have discretion in terms of how they enforce the law. Have you never been pulled over for speeding and gotten just a warning instead of a ticket? But just to be clear, I think these guys are smart enough to make sure what they are doing doesn’t fall under the category of a “strike”, per that definition. But, if they are illegally striking, then we should expect some legal action against them soon, right? Or is the DA on a “strike”, too? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/285 "2014-12-31T20:13:41Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Police always have discretion in terms of how they enforce the law. Have you never been pulled over for speeding and gotten just a warning instead of a ticket? But just to be clear, I think these guys are smart enough to make sure what they are doing doesn’t fall under the category of a “strike”, per that definition. > > But, if they are illegally striking, then we should expect some legal action against them soon, right? Or is the DA on a “strike”, too? I know you’re driven to combat liberal overstatement of conservative evils, and that’s a good service on a majority liberal board, but c’mon, you’ve just been shown you’re wrong. As for the DA, I assume there are political considerations to take into account, when a third of the country is stupid enough to gobble down RW media talking points. Witness Magellan, above. He has no idea what’s going on, but he knows _the liberals_ are wrong about it. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/286 "2014-12-31T20:16:11Z")
> [@Donald\_Rump](#): > > So I guess this is the new conservative straw man _du jour_. Protesters don’t want cops to quit fighting crime. Protesters want cops to fight crime without unnecessarily killing or brutalizing people. They want cops to stop treating minorities unfairly. The notion that police either change absolutely nothing in the way they do their work OR they “quit fighting crime” is a false choice set up to preclude any discussion of police reform. When you say “treat minorities fairly” you are saying, “let more minorities get away with more crime.” “Fair” and “allow more black crime” are the same thing. We’re also saying “bust more whites.” But, crime and violence in white neighborhoods doesn’t seem to be as urgent a problem as crime and violence in black neighborhoods. But, we should fight more crime in white neighborhoods and less crime in black neighborhoods. And this will fix society’s problems? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/287 "2014-12-31T20:18:42Z")
I don’t think I’m wrong. It’s not part of a cop’s job to meet an arrest quota. But seriously, do you think these cops are so stupid as to not know how to skirt the law on this issue? But I tell you what… you show me that this type of thing has ever been successfully prosecuted in NYC and I’ll concede. If it hasn’t, then I don’t see how you can be so sure you’re right. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/288 "2014-12-31T20:18:52Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Agreed as well. The police serve the city, and the mayor is the chief executive of the city and their superior. Whether they agree with his politics or not, openly demonstrating against him is every bit as unprofessional, inappropriate, and meriting of official discipline as it would be for a soldier in uniform to disparage the president. Couldn’t have said it better myself. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/289 "2014-12-31T20:23:21Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > When you say “treat minorities fairly” you are saying, “let more minorities get away with more crime.” It’s a good thing your join date is listed. Otherwise I might think you were less than 12 years old. ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/290 "2014-12-31T20:29:51Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Not me. The same actions by the police could be done if there was no union in place. I support that people who risk their lives to make the city safer for everyone not start the day with the DeBlasio narrative of “what are you going to do wrong today you racist bunch of cops”. **Good for them for pushing back against this asshole. It’s truly amazing that New Yorkers voted for this leftist twit**. Bolding mine… You basically just said that it is okay for a bunch of civil servants to tell the citizens of New York to fuck off. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/291 "2014-12-31T20:37:32Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > That’s not a strike. Looks like they are protesting the abandonment of the “broken windows” strategy. Civil Service law, or sometimes called the “Taylor law”, In New York, strikes are outlawed for civil servants. The Taylor law defines a strike as a strike **or work slowdown**. Obviously, the NYPD PBAs temper tantrum is demonstrably that - a work slowdown. That’s blatently clear due to having **a 90%+ drop in almost every tracked statistic** there is about police performance (arrests, traffic tickets, parking tickets, you name it). 1. Members of a striking union can lose 2 days pay for every 1 day a strike action takes place. 2. Union leaders of a striking union can be jailed for the duration of a strike. 3. The union itself can be sanctioned up to and including the loss of dues checkoff. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/292 "2014-12-31T20:39:12Z")
> [@Wolf333](#): > > Bolding mine… > > You basically just said that it is okay for a bunch of civil servants to tell the citizens of New York to fuck off. Yes. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/293 "2014-12-31T20:40:22Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Couldn’t have said it better myself. Also a Yes. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/294 "2014-12-31T20:46:39Z")
> [@Donald\_Rump](#): > > It’s a good thing your join date is listed. Otherwise I might think you were less than 12 years old. I have lots of conservative friends, real life and Facebook, so I know what I’m going to hear. According to you, all I have to do is call them 12 years old and they’ll come right around to my blistering logic and reason. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/295 "2014-12-31T20:46:43Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Civil Service law, or sometimes called the “Taylor law”, > > In New York, strikes are outlawed for civil servants. > > The Taylor law defines a strike as a strike **or work slowdown**. Obviously, the NYPD PBAs temper tantrum is demonstrably that - a work slowdown. That’s blatently clear due to having **a 90%+ drop in almost every tracked statistic** there is about police performance (arrests, traffic tickets, parking tickets, you name it). > > 1. Members of a striking union can lose 2 days pay for every 1 day a strike action takes place. > 2. Union leaders of a striking union can be jailed for the duration of a strike. > 3. The union itself can be sanctioned up to and including the loss of dues checkoff. FIrst of all, you’re wrong about the 90% number. But I tell you what… whenever any of your 1,2 or 3 items happens, I’ll be happy to concede. Until then, you’re just conjecturing. As I said above, I don’t believe it is part of a cop’s job to make a certain number of arrests per week. Do you? If so, what is that number? It’s a matter of policy as to how vigorously the cops enforce certain laws, and individual cops have a certain amount of discretion as to when to make an arrest. Perhaps less discretion (or none) for violent crimes, but they don’t have to give you a speeding ticket, as we all should know. ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/296 "2014-12-31T20:48:28Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > When you say “treat minorities fairly” you are saying, “let more minorities get away with more crime.” “Fair” and “allow more black crime” are the same thing. We’re also saying “bust more whites.” But, crime and violence in white neighborhoods doesn’t seem to be as urgent a problem as crime and violence in black neighborhoods. But, we should fight more crime in white neighborhoods and less crime in black neighborhoods. And this will fix society’s problems? No, you dumb shit. It simply means that if a white guy and a black guy are walking down the same damn street, treat them the same. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/297 "2014-12-31T20:57:09Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > FIrst of all, you’re wrong about the 90% number. But I tell you what… whenever any of your 1,2 or 3 items happens, I’ll be happy to concede. Until then, you’re just conjecturing. As I said above, I don’t believe it is part of a cop’s job to make a certain number of arrests per week. Do you? If so, what is that number? It’s a matter of policy as to how vigorously the cops enforce certain laws, and individual cops have a certain amount of discretion as to when to make an arrest. Perhaps less discretion (or none) for violent crimes, but they don’t have to give you a speeding ticket, as we all should know. We will see. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/298 "2014-12-31T21:04:16Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > FIrst of all, you’re wrong about the 90% number. But I tell you what… whenever any of your 1,2 or 3 items happens, I’ll be happy to concede. Until then, you’re just conjecturing. As I said above, I don’t believe it is part of a cop’s job to make a certain number of arrests per week. Do you? If so, what is that number? It’s a matter of policy as to how vigorously the cops enforce certain laws, and individual cops have a certain amount of discretion as to when to make an arrest. Perhaps less discretion (or none) for violent crimes, but they don’t have to give you a speeding ticket, as we all should know. It’s still a slowdown if 1, 2, or 3 don’t happen for political reasons. You’re formulating a system where the answer to a factual question is chosen by something that takes will and political capital to do. It’s like saying you’re six feet tall if I walk over broken glass. No, even if I don’t walk on the glass, you’re still whatever height you are. [ > [@NYP](#): > > Citations for traffic violations fell by 94 percent, from 10,069 to 587, during that time frame. > Summonses for low-level offenses like public drinking and urination also plunged 94 percent — from 4,831 to 300. > Even parking violations are way down, dropping by 92 percent, from 14,699 to 1,241. > Drug arrests by cops assigned to the NYPD’s Organized Crime Control Bureau — which are part of the overall number — dropped by 84 percent, from 382 to 63. ]([Exclusive | Arrests plummet 66% with NYPD in virtual work stoppage](http://nypost.com/2014/12/29/arrests-plummet-following-execution-of-two-cops/)) ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/299 "2014-12-31T21:08:16Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > As I said above, I don’t believe it is part of a cop’s job to make a certain number of arrests per week. Do you? If so, what is that number? It’s a matter of policy as to how vigorously the cops enforce certain laws, and individual cops have a certain amount of discretion as to when to make an arrest. Perhaps less discretion (or none) for violent crimes, but they don’t have to give you a speeding ticket, as we all should know. Are you not familiar with the [NYPD quota system](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/22/nypd-stop-frisk-quota-race)? > [@](#): > > Officer Adhyl Polanco began his testimony Tuesday by saying “there’s a difference between” the department’s policies on paper and “what goes on out there”, on the city’s streets. > > Polanco testified that in 2009, officers in his Bronx precinct were expected to issue 20 summons and make one arrest per month. If they did not they would risk denied vacation, being separated from longtime partners, undesirable assignments and other consequences. > > Polcano claimed it was not uncommon for patrol officers who were not making quotas to be forced to “drive the sergeant” or “drive the supervisor”, which meant driving around with a senior officer who would find individuals for the patrol officer to arrest or issue a summons to, at times for infractions the junior officer did not observe. But I do agree with you that they will not be formally sanctioned under Taylor Law. They’re just sending a message and sticking it to the city where it hurts the most: > [@](#): > > In one recording played for the court, a man Polanco claimed was a NYPD captain told officers: “the summons is a money–generating machine for the city.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/300 "2014-12-31T21:13:35Z")
> [@camille](#): > > Are you not familiar with the [NYPD quota system](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/22/nypd-stop-frisk-quota-race)? Yes, I’m quite familiar with those informal systems. However, those are not legally binding. You know that, right? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293.md?page=16)