# And now: What about all those cops turning their backs on De Blasio? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 27, 2014, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293 "2014-12-27T20:22:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/101 "2014-12-28T03:45:46Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > This is your big chance to provide details. Google it yourself. You’re such a worthless poster, why would I think for a second that knowing the law will change your opinion? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/102 "2014-12-28T03:45:50Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > The PBA doesn’t like _anyone._ It’s not only De Blasio that they’ve dissed. They’ve dissed Bloomberg and Giuliani and Dinkins too. > > [NYPD union has history of turning its back on mayors](http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/crime/op-ed-nypd-union-has-history-of-turning-its-back-on-mayors/article/421764). > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m not sure why, though – “there should be some improvement” doesn’t sound like throwing anyone under the bus. As mentioned before, because of a _“with us or against us, UNCONDITIONALLY”_ mentality. That’s why even “law and order” mayors like Rudy and Bloomie caught shit from the PBA for ever daring to question anything about NYPD or for not simply rolling and giving \*whatever \*was asked for in contract negotiations. PBA does not give a damn that as mayor he has to run the city on behalf of the whole eight million citizens, they care about the police, and as far as they are concerned everyone else is either entitled one-percenter pricks, or lowlifes, and politicians are _both_. PBA leadership turns any attempt at a critical view of what the police does as anti-police attack and any words of conciliation to the people with grievances into throwing them under the bus, and proclaim that there’s blood in everyone’s hands who did not stand with them 100% from day one. They have fostered such a culture to the point that many rank and file policemen DO feel angered and hurt that anyone who is not an insider can be such an ingrate or be critical. (However if you’re an insider and you don’t toe the line, someone is going to brand you a rat… ) The terms of employment for career public employees usually preclude summary separation for anything short of an actual crime, and the rules about insubordination of a civilian LEO are different from those for mutiny in the military. So I believe they can’t just be fired on the spot, and suspect they can’t even be disciplined beyond a simple admonishment, especially if the individuals who turned their backs were not actually on their watch at the time and place; if they were it \*could \*be an unauthorized Work Action. But they ARE acting obnoxiously IMO and in a manner that does NOT improve public confidence. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/103 "2014-12-28T03:49:45Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > What “infantryman” turned their back on the De Blasio? This isn’t a military issue, is it? I didn’t claim that infantrymen turned their backs on De Blasio. I didn’t claim that infantrymen turned their backs on anyone. I used infantrymen - as well as office workers - to show examples of insubordinate behaviour. You’ll note I referred to both military and non-military persons in those examples, because, as you say, it’s not a military issue. I didn’t claim it was. > [@](#): > > If the whiners aren’t whining about the physical act of police turning their backs towards the De Blasio, then they are acting as self-ordained thought-police. You will not have bad thoughts about the De Blasio OR YOU WILL BE FIRED. Incorrect. Again, please note my two examples, as well as the examples I gave in the next post; none of them indicated that it was thoughts that showed insubordination, but actions. Here’s some more examples, to show the difference. If a soldier is given an order, thinks “Wow, my superior officer is a fuckhead”, but says “Yes, sir!” and does it, then there are no problems here. If he were to actually say that, however, transforming non-problematic throughts into problematic action, then we have a case of insubordination. Likewise, if an officer worker thinks cruel and derogatory language after being given a task, simply thinking it is no problem. If, however, they react by ignoring their bosses’ clear orders, taking actual action, then again, insubordination. Another useful example would be to look at the opposite side of things. If _thought_ was the problem, then people wouldn’t even refer to to the back-turning at all. The knowledge that many cops are annoyed with De Blasio is widespread; I don’t even live in your country and I knew about it before the back-turning. This thread would have started, asking for firings for such thoughts, before that point. It didn’t. It was started after, because it was the actions that people seem to believe are contestable. I personally disagree that firings are a good or even sane plan, but I think you’ve got the wrong end of the stick somehow. Do you have any disagreement with the issues I brought up with the insubordination definition you used? ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/104 "2014-12-28T04:08:09Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Should we declare that Bill De Blasio should be able to fire any public employees who go on strike union rules and contracts be damned? You know what? At some point I’m pretty sure he _can_ fire any public employees who go on strike. The Taylor Law prohibits strikes by public employees in NY. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/105 "2014-12-28T04:42:18Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So yes, the mayor is their boss in the exact same sense that the president is the Army’s boss, and openly standing against him like this is an act of mutiny in the same sense that it would be if soldiers turned their back on the president. This isn’t “mutiny.” It’s insubordination and conduct unbecoming a police officer, but it’s not mutiny. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/106 "2014-12-28T04:54:49Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > This isn’t “mutiny.” It’s insubordination and conduct unbecoming a police officer, but it’s not mutiny. How is it insubordination? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/107 "2014-12-28T04:58:11Z")
If anyone ever wonders _why_ the police have an us-vs-them attitude just read this fucking thread, and see the amount of ignorant anti-cop bullshit posted… All the same bunch of fucking idiots who supported the “protesters” in Ferguson - who’s “protest” consisted of burning half the fucking town to the ground - are now claiming that the police turning their backs on their nominal employer are worse than that. Fucking ridiculous. Yes, there’s been some bad actions by cops, but that’s vastly outweighed by the bad actions of those they have to deal with on a day-to-day basis. The mayor calling them out in public for trying to do their job is fucking disgusting, and he’s the one who should be punished - hopefully by being voted out at the earliest opportunity. And out and out lies like this - > [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > Exactly this, it tells us they are nothing but a gang of criminals. > > And before some pig apologist says, “if someone was robbing you, who would you call then?” Well, not the fucking thug police, I’ll tell you that much! Why would I? So they can show up and rape me? (first [cite](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/01/29/she-dialed-911-the-cop-who-came-to-help-raped-her.html) I saw when I googled) Or maybe so they can arrest me instead, or shoot my family member? Or refuse to help me because even though I’m a victim of theft, they think they smell alcohol on my breath so they just leave instead (personal experience)? Or maybe they’ll just call me a “drug addict faggot” and push me around a bit before they go, that happened to a friend of mine because his ADD medication was stolen. He had to go a month without medicine, since they refused to make a report and the pharmacy wouldn’t give him a refill without a police report. What is the point of cops exactly? Oh yeah, to uphold the bullshit system. just make it worse. This is at best lying by ommission, telling only one side of the story, and more likely outright fantasy. And yet, you wonder why the police might see you as the enemy?? Act with a little basic civility and respect to them - not undue kowtowing, just the respect you should be giving _any_ professional who works for you - and you’d see a completely different attitude. Of course, giving respect to others seems to be dying out these days. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/108 "2014-12-28T05:02:14Z")
I don’t give a shit whether or not they broke PD rules. They represent the city and they disgraced all of us. At a funeral. Mayor de Blasio is a boob. It’s not about respecting him. Even a brainless troll like doorhinge knows that. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/109 "2014-12-28T05:04:13Z")
Great. Now some retarded limey shut in living on the government tit is going to explain the realities of NYC to us. Shut the fuck up. ---
**Author:** ![manitou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@manitou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manitou)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/110 "2014-12-28T05:07:33Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > The mayor calling them out in public for trying to do their job is fucking disgusting, and he’s the one who should be punished - hopefully by being voted out at the earliest opportunity. Maybe I’m a bit unclear here (I know it’s the pit and all, but humor me here): It seems the only rational criticism that is being leveled against De Blasio are related to his rejection of the “stop and frisk” policy, a policy which is not based on any reasonable suspicion of illegal activity. Stop and frisk seems to me to be a bad policy for deterring crime and a bad policy if you are trying to improve the image of the NYPD as a force to serve and protect all citizens. Police officers must be people who understand that they are agents of the people and work for our elected officials, not against them. Are this many officers supportive of this policy? The only other rational criticism seems to be a comment on the non-indictment of the police officer who killed Eric Garner: “Chirlane and I have had to talk to Dante for years about the dangers that he may face. A good young man, law-abiding young man who would never think to do anything wrong. And yet, because of a history that still hangs over us, the dangers he may face, we’ve had to literally train him—as families have all over this city for decades—in how to take special care in any encounter he has with the police officers who are there to protect him.” Isn’t this exactly what those defending the police are saying? “Don’t resist” So because of these two things, the cops decide they are going to turn their back and completely reject the mayor? Am I missing something? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/111 "2014-12-28T05:22:25Z")
You are missing that the mayor is implying a sufficient number of police are racist so they have to counsel their son about that. I’m not surprised if the NYPD find that offensive. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/112 "2014-12-28T05:57:05Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > You are missing that the mayor is implying a sufficient number of police are racist so they have to counsel their son about that. I’m not surprised if the NYPD find that offensive. Truth hurts… ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/113 "2014-12-28T06:04:59Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Great. Now some retarded limey shut in living on the government tit is going to explain the realities of NYC to us. Shut the fuck up. I’m not retarded… ---
**Author:** ![manitou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@manitou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manitou)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/114 "2014-12-28T06:14:09Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > You are missing that the mayor is implying a sufficient number of police are racist so they have to counsel their son about that. I’m not surprised if the NYPD find that offensive. Call me naive, but where is the implication here? I don’t know if the NYPD is racist or not, but I will grant some leeway here… is there some kind of dog-whistle I can’t hear? Is there something specific in the mayor’s comments that implies that a “sufficient number” of police are racist? And what is a “sufficient number”? Is it a percentage? Is it a gross number? Is it implying that there is more than zero? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/115 "2014-12-28T06:39:55Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > No and no. Fair enough. I’m a bit confused because you seemed to be suggesting that the police officers who publicly protested against De Blasio should be subject to disciplinary actions. Was I wrong? Do you think that it would be wrong to discipline the police officers who protested at the funeral? If so, I apologize for my mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/116 "2014-12-28T06:49:05Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I’m not retarded… Ok, are you a “shut in living on the government’s tit”? If so, what was the problem that caused you to have to live like this? Is it laziness, an insufficient number of hugs received as a child, something else? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/117 "2014-12-28T07:01:25Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > You are missing that the mayor is implying a sufficient number of police are racist so they have to counsel their son about that. I’m not surprised if the NYPD find that offensive. The [United States District Court for the Southern District of New York](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/13/nyregion/stop-and-frisk-practice-violated-rights-judge-rules.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0) found the racism offensive too. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/118 "2014-12-28T07:51:13Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Ok, are you a “shut in living on the government’s tit”? > If so, what was the problem that caused you to have to live like this? > > Is it laziness, an insufficient number of hugs received as a child, something else? Mental illness serious enough to require ongoing counselling and medication, which caused me to lose my job and makes it difficult to get out much, due to severe anxiety. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/119 "2014-12-28T08:03:57Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > From the link, it appears that those inside the church did not turn their backs, but those outside (presumably the overflow crowd) turned their backs on a screen projecting the mayor’s eulogy. I did not see any dissenters in the crowd, and there were a few black faces with backs turned, too. So, the cops inside the church did not turn their backs on the mayor personally, but the ones outside turned their backs on his projected image. This is what the shitstorm’s all about? A bunch of cops turned their backs to a TV screen? OK, then. Fire every one of their blue asses! ---
**Author:** ![eulalia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eulalia/32/457_2.png) [@eulalia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eulalia)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293/120 "2014-12-28T08:05:08Z")
Maybe they can’t fire them all at once, but I don’t see why they should expect to get promoted any time in the foreseeable future, and maybe some suspensions would be in order. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-now-what-about-all-those-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio/708293.md?page=7)