# And so the "code words" begin.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-code-words-begin/462066
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [September 4, 2008, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-code-words-begin/462066 "2008-09-04T22:11:57Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 5
### Author:  [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2008, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-code-words-begin/462066/81 "2008-09-05T18:55:08Z")
> [@Ensign\_Edison](#):
>
> So I can’t link. But I’m sure others remember the thread, since it was a massive Pitwreck. The story was about a customer in a grocery store angry that the guy bagging his groceries did it wrong, so he picked up a can of toxic bug spray, sprayed at at the guy, and called him a “nigger”. The argument went on and on about how this was not necessarily a racist act or the act of a racist.
Oh, I remember that thread. But, if I remember correctly, those holding the viewpoint you mention comprised a very small, but highly vocal minority of idiots. [del]I’ll see if I can locate the thread when I get home from work.[/del]
[Found it.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=351628)
---
### Author:  [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2008, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-code-words-begin/462066/82 "2008-09-05T19:13:48Z")
> [@pbbth](#):
>
> Some people are not familiar with the history of words. I was out to dinner with my ex-roommate some months ago and she used the term “porch monkey” in conversation. I gasped and shushed her, explaining that using racial slurs in any context when we are both so white you can practically see through us would get both of our asses kicked and she should never, ever use that term again.
Hmm…I used to hear people use the term “yard apes” when I lived in Indianapolis, and it was clearly meant as an anti-“white trash” insult.
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### Author:  [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2008, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-code-words-begin/462066/83 "2008-09-05T19:28:14Z")
If it was directed at whites then the implied insult was that they were like blacks, same as the phrase “white trash” itself.
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### Author:  [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2008, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-code-words-begin/462066/84 "2008-09-05T19:28:48Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#):
>
> Hmm…I used to hear people use the term “yard apes” when I lived in Indianapolis, and it was clearly meant as an anti-“white trash” insult.
These are both new to me. I’d never heard porch monkey until Clerks 2. (I thought it was something Kevin Smith made up.)
I have heard yard apes, but it was always in reference to children. As in, “The kids were making a mess in here, so I sent the little yard apes outside.”
When they’re inside raising hell, they’re house monkeys. When they’re outside raising hell, they’re yard apes.
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### Author:  [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2008, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-code-words-begin/462066/85 "2008-09-05T19:41:19Z")
I guess I lead a sheltered life. If I heard someone called a porch monkey I’d laugh. It’s right up there with “trailer trash,” or “red-neck” that a lot of people actually take pride in, and whether the terms contain any actual hate really depends on the delivery.
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### Author:  [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2008, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-code-words-begin/462066/86 "2008-09-05T19:58:37Z")
> [@mudkicker](#):
>
> Absolutely.
>
> However, the fact that Palin is being criticised for running for VP while having a four month old baby at home _is_ sexist, in that if it was her husband who was running the subject would probably never come up. Not saying you’re saying this, askeptic, just that some of the criticism of Palin is coming from sexist grounds, IMO. I have heard nothing about Obama’s kids and in fact only found out recently (through a Dope post) that he even has any. I certainly haven’t heard any criticism of him based on the grounds that if he has young children, what is he doing running for office?
I disagree. Criticizing a particular mother who’d rather run for VP than either care for (1) her 4 month old child who has Downs Syndrome or (2) for her other underage, unmarried pregnant child is not sexist. IMHO Palin shows bad judgment by running for VP, and McCain shows bad judgment for selecting her. Such a position isn’t sexist.
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### Author:  [@A\_shameful\_cracka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_shameful_cracka)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2008, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-code-words-begin/462066/87 "2008-09-05T20:00:28Z")
I’ve lived in Texas my entire adult life, and I have heard “boy” used against non-blacks, but it is always derogatory. It’s not used for anyone younger than you, it’s used to imply childishness if used against a white and I’ve seen it start fights before.
“Old boy” is a different story. I’ve heard a lot of people, mostly of the older generation, refer to men as “that old boy” with the implication that they are a familiar, generally good person - kinda like “Good old boy” without the negative connotations. Even in that context it can be taken the wrong way among blacks. I remember once when I was talking with an older black guy in my neighborhood I shot the shit with regularly and I referred to another black guy as “old boy” and he immediately cooled and was never friendly towards me again.
“Boy” is a very bad word for southern blacks.
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### Author:  [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2008, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-code-words-begin/462066/88 "2008-09-05T20:21:51Z")
Not too long ago there was a thread about how certain people were now calling blacks “Canadians.” Oh, yeah, you gotta be careful about dem dere Canadians… heh, heh, wink, wink.
Look, at some point we have to stop eliminating English words from our vocabulary because some people use them as euphemisms.
It’s not the word, it’s how you use it.
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### Author:  [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2008, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-code-words-begin/462066/89 "2008-09-05T20:47:45Z")
> [@Li\_l\_Pluck](#):
>
> Okay, I just had to pop in to tell you that this was too funny!
>
> And you may consider this black person to be unoffended by your use of the word here.
That cracked me the hell up, too. Strangely enough…now that you indicate n8 is white; it does kinda rub me wrong, just a smidge. Even though I found that funny, and even though the word ‘nigger’ doesn’t really bother me, (I use nigga on a regular basis…), I still think it a bit…tense?..when a white person uses it in my company.
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### Author:  [@Carl\_Corey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carl_Corey)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2008, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-code-words-begin/462066/90 "2008-09-05T20:50:58Z")
> [@levdrakon](#):
>
> Not too long ago there was a thread about how certain people were now calling blacks “Canadians.” Oh, yeah, you gotta be careful about dem dere Canadians… heh, heh, wink, wink.
>
> Look, at some point we have to stop eliminating English words from our vocabulary because some people use them as euphemisms.
>
> It’s not the word, it’s how you use it.
Sorry, **Levdrakon**. “Canadian” does not have anywhere the same history and baggage associated with it that “uppity” does.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2008, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-code-words-begin/462066/91 "2008-09-05T20:53:34Z")
Look at it this way – it just goes to show [Obama is elitist!](http://www.theonion.com/content/video/portrayal_of_obama_as_elitist)🙂
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### Author:  [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2008, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-code-words-begin/462066/92 "2008-09-05T20:58:46Z")
Ok this thread is starting to give me a Randal flashback from Clerks 2. 🙂
> [@](#):
>
> Randal Graves: Since when did porch monkey suddenly become a racial slur?
> Dante Hicks: When ignorant racists started saying it a hundred years ago!
> Randal Graves: Oh, bullshit! My grandmother used to call me a porch monkey all the time when I was a kid because I’d sit on the porch and stare at my neighbors!
> Dante Hicks: Despite the fact that your grandmother might’ve used it as a term of endearment for you, it’s still a racial slur! It’d be like your grandmother calling you a little kike!
> Randal Graves: Oh, it is not. Plus, my grandmother had nothing but the utmost respect for the Jewish community. When I was a kid she told me to always treat the Jewish kids well, or they’d put the sheeny curse on me.
> Dante Hicks: What the fuck, man?
> Randal Graves: What?
> Dante Hicks: Sheeny’s a racial slur, too!
> Randal Graves: Oh, it is not.
> Dante Hicks: Yes, it is!
> Randal Graves: She never called any Jews ‘sheeny’, she just used to say sheeny curse a lot. It was cute!
> Dante Hicks: It wasn’t cute! It was racist!
> Randal Graves: I disagree, man, she was just an old timer, that’s the way people talked back then! Didn’t mean they were racist… But my grandmother did refer to a broken beer bottle once as a nigger knife… You know, come to think of it, my grandmother was kind of a racist.
> Dante Hicks: You think?
> Randal Graves: Well, I-I still don’t think porch monkey should be considered a racial term. I mean, I’ve always used it to describe lazy people, not lazy black people! I think if we really tried, we could re-claim porch monkey, and save it.
> Dante Hicks: It can’t be saved, Randal! The sole purpose for its creation, the only reason it exists in the first place, is to disparage an entire race! And even if it could be saved, you can’t save it because you’re not black!
> Randal Graves: Well listen to you! Telling me I can’t do something because of the color of my skin! You’re the racist! I’m taking it back, you watch!
> [customers enter]
> Randal Graves: Hey, what can I get for you, you little porch monkey?
> [beat]
> Randal Graves: Its cool, I’m taking it back.
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### Author:  [@The\_Mermaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Mermaid)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2008, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-code-words-begin/462066/93 "2008-09-05T20:59:04Z")
I live in OH and calling a black man “boy” is definitely racist. When the word uppity is used it’s almost always followed by the N word.
Anyone who tries to say either aren’t racist is kidding themselves.
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### Author:  [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2008, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-code-words-begin/462066/94 "2008-09-05T21:09:51Z")
After slapping a white girl who’d slapped me (in MS), when my two white, male bandmates, who, up to that point had addressed me as **5-4-Fighting** (if at all), sidled up to me and said “Boy, we better not see out anywhere after dark,” I just knew right away what mindset they were operating from. Didn’t even need to read a history book.
* * *
**Nzinga, Seated** , I wasn’t offended by what **nd\_n8** wrote either. Not only was he trying to make a particular point to his neighbor by using the word, it doesn’t seem to do any particular good to dance around (don’t go there!) the word here, either in the sharing of his experience or in the discourse about (the lack of) progress that we’re attempting have.
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### Author:  [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2008, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-code-words-begin/462066/95 "2008-09-05T22:43:20Z")
> [@Carl\_Corey](#):
>
> Sorry, **Levdrakon**. “Canadian” does not have anywhere the same history and baggage associated with it that “uppity” does.
Oh, that’s a valid point I suppose, but some words & terms were invented specially as slurs, and some words just get used that way, but you can’t remove them from the English language. “Boy” gets used all the time, and the times when it might be inappropriate are vanishingly small, relatively speaking. So can we keep the word, please?
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### Author:  [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2008, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-code-words-begin/462066/96 "2008-09-05T22:47:00Z")
> [@levdrakon](#):
>
> Oh, that’s a valid point I suppose, but some words & terms were invented specially as slurs, and some words just get used that way, but you can’t remove them from the English language. “Boy” gets used all the time, and the times when it might be inappropriate are vanishingly small, relatively speaking. So can we keep the word, please?
As long as you understand that in certain context it is offensive, like referring to an adult black man as “boy”.
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### Author:  [@eldowan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eldowan)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2008, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-code-words-begin/462066/97 "2008-09-05T23:05:19Z")
so I guess this post is racist?
[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10157794&postcount=3](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10157794&postcount=3)
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### Author:  [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2008, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-code-words-begin/462066/98 "2008-09-05T23:07:37Z")
> [@eldowan](#):
>
> so I guess this post is racist?
>
> [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10157794&postcount=3](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10157794&postcount=3)
CONTEXT GODDAMNIT! Or do you suggest that poster was knowingly referring to black people.
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### Author:  [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2008, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-code-words-begin/462066/99 "2008-09-05T23:31:13Z")
> [@askeptic](#):
>
> CONTEXT GODDAMNIT! Or do you suggest that poster was knowingly referring to black people.
So what do you call a black person who really is uppity?
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### Author:  [@A\_shameful\_cracka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_shameful_cracka)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2008, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-code-words-begin/462066/100 "2008-09-05T23:32:01Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#):
>
> So what do you call a black person who really is uppity?
Big-headed.
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