# And so the Gestapo tactics begin (OWS) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 1, 2012, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-gestapo-tactics-begin-ows/620505 "2012-05-01T13:01:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-gestapo-tactics-begin-ows/620505/1 "2012-05-01T13:01:03Z")
Yes I Godwinized my own thread in the title but in this case it is actually a fitting description. How can this be seen as anything less than fascist? > [@](#): > > A day before Occupy Wall Street hopes to shut down New York and cities across the country in massive May Day protests, the NYPD visited at least three activist homes in New York and interrogated residents about plans for tomorrow’s protest. > > \ > > In the first case: activist Zachary Dempster said that six NYPD officers broke down the door of his Bushwick, Brooklyn apartment at around 6:15am this morning. Dempster said they were armed with a warrant for the arrest of his roommate, musician Joe Crow Ryan, for a six-year-old open container violation. > > \ > > “They asked what I was doing tomorrow, and if I knew of any activities, any events—that was how the conversation started,” Dempster said. Dempster said he’s not planning doing much, as his case from February is still open. Dempster’s roommate was also asked about him and May Day. > > About an hour later, an activist friend of Dempster’s who runs in anarchist circles said his apartment in Bed-Stuy, Brooklyn, where he lives with a half-dozen other activists and Occupy Wall Street organizers was visited by six NYPD cops—possibly the same ones. The activist said police used arrest warrants for two men who no longer lived there as pretext for the raid. The officers ran the IDs of everyone who was in the apartment, then booked our source when they discovered he had an outstanding open container violation. > > SOURCE: [http://gawker.com/5906500/nypd-raids-activists-homes-before-tomorrows-occupy-wall-street-protests](http://gawker.com/5906500/nypd-raids-activists-homes-before-tomorrows-occupy-wall-street-protests) (more there but can’t quote all of it for Board rules) I know many here are no fans of OWS but regardless of your political leanings this shit should scare you and bother you deeply. I pit the NYPD for showing themselves to be the lackeys for their corporate pay masters that they obviously are. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-gestapo-tactics-begin-ows/620505/2 "2012-05-01T13:12:50Z")
Are there any other sources for this information? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-gestapo-tactics-begin-ows/620505/3 "2012-05-01T13:32:22Z")
I guess the moral of the story is to pay the fine when you get an open container violation and you’re an anarchist. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-gestapo-tactics-begin-ows/620505/4 "2012-05-01T13:42:06Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I guess the moral of the story is to pay the fine when you get an open container violation and you’re an anarchist. You don’t think that police like this would simply find another pretext? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-gestapo-tactics-begin-ows/620505/5 "2012-05-01T13:50:28Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > You don’t think that police like this would simply find another pretext? Hell…pay the fine. That won’t stop them. You may remember from very recently: > [@](#): > > One such person was Albert Florence, a 35-year-old Black man erroneously arrested in 2005 for failing to pay a traffic fine he had already paid – and whose experience is the center of the case decided by the Court. > > SOURCE: [Supreme Court Says Jails Can Strip Search You - Even for Traffic Violations | HuffPost Voices](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/inimai-chettiar/strip-search-supreme-court_b_1400325.html) That is the case the Supreme Court said the police can strip search you for almost any legal violation. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-gestapo-tactics-begin-ows/620505/6 "2012-05-01T13:52:52Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > That is the case the Supreme Court said the police can strip search you for almost any legal violation. No, they didn’t say that. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Duality](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.duality/32/4098_2.png) [@Mr.Duality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Duality)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-gestapo-tactics-begin-ows/620505/7 "2012-05-01T14:07:07Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No, they didn’t say that. True. They said “officials may strip-search people arrested for any offense, however minor, before admitting them to jails even if the officials have no reason to suspect the presence of contraband.” That was “any”, not “almost any”. [http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/us/justices-approve-strip-searches-for-any-offense.html?\_r=1&pagewanted=all](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/us/justices-approve-strip-searches-for-any-offense.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-gestapo-tactics-begin-ows/620505/8 "2012-05-01T14:09:22Z")
> [@Mr.Duality](#): > > True. They said “officials may strip-search people arrested for any offense, however minor, before admitting them to jails even if the officials have no reason to suspect the presence of contraband.” > > That was “any”, not “almost any”. > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/us/justices-approve-strip-searches-for-any-offense.html?\_r=1&pagewanted=all](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/us/justices-approve-strip-searches-for-any-offense.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all) Yep, they did say that. And we debated that thoroughly here, with the consensus being the court got it right. I agreed. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-gestapo-tactics-begin-ows/620505/9 "2012-05-01T14:12:10Z")
“They were correct to say what they said, and therefore did not say it.” Eh? ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-gestapo-tactics-begin-ows/620505/10 "2012-05-01T14:13:58Z")
When Worlds Collide! One day only! Occupy Wall Street May Day Shut Down Marxist idealism runs head on with Gestapo Police tactics. Reserve your seats early! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-gestapo-tactics-begin-ows/620505/11 "2012-05-01T14:14:52Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > “They were correct to say what they said, and therefore did not say it.” > > Eh? If that’s directed at me, you’ll have to be more specific. They did not say what **WaM** said, but they did say what **Mr. D** said. Those are not the same. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-gestapo-tactics-begin-ows/620505/12 "2012-05-01T14:18:01Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Are there any other sources for this information? I emailed the author of the article and was pointed to [this one](http://www.buzzfeed.com/rosiegray/fbi-nypd-made-visited-occupy-activists-in-advance) on the same subject. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-gestapo-tactics-begin-ows/620505/13 "2012-05-01T14:21:30Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If that’s directed at me, you’ll have to be more specific. > > They did not say what **WaM** said, but they did say what **Mr. D** said. Those are not the same. The pedantry is strong with you. Fine, not exactly the same but still nitpicking at its finest particularly because strip searches and the SCOTUS decision are not the point of the OP or my post. I used that example to show someone who paid their fine was arrested anyway. I noted the strip searching part so it would remind people of what the recent case was and that it was not some obscure happening. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-gestapo-tactics-begin-ows/620505/14 "2012-05-01T14:39:01Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If that’s directed at me, you’ll have to be more specific. > > They did not say what **WaM** said, but they did say what **Mr. D** said. Those are not the same. Other than the word “almost”, yes they are. An infraction gives them the ability to arrest you, and an arrest means you can go to jail. So any infraction can result in a strip search. The only difference is that saying it that way makes it sound worse. But if that’s enough to get you to be ashamed of your position, you might want to rethink it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-gestapo-tactics-begin-ows/620505/15 "2012-05-01T14:42:33Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > The pedantry is strong with you. > > Fine, not exactly the same but still nitpicking at its finest particularly because strip searches and the SCOTUS decision are not the point of the OP or my post. Not pedantry. Sloppiness, either intentional or otherwise on your part. The triggering of the search is being booked into jail, not the offense, which is what your post implied. And the action is as much to protect the people in jail, including the new person, as anything else. No one reading your post without being familiar with the case would know that. > [@](#): > > I used that example to show someone who paid their fine was arrested anyway. I noted the strip searching part so it would remind people of what the recent case was and that it was not some obscure happening. Then you should have stopped right there, instead of expanding into another area where you made a factually incorrect statement. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-gestapo-tactics-begin-ows/620505/16 "2012-05-01T14:45:50Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I emailed the author of the article and was pointed to [this one](http://www.buzzfeed.com/rosiegray/fbi-nypd-made-visited-occupy-activists-in-advance) on the same subject. Thank you. It looks like typical New York jackassery. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-gestapo-tactics-begin-ows/620505/17 "2012-05-01T14:59:19Z")
When I opened the thread, I really was expecting the reference to brownshirt tactics being the vandalism that occurred last night in San Francisco, where protesters were breaking car windows, mashed up some businesses, and attacked a police station. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-gestapo-tactics-begin-ows/620505/18 "2012-05-01T15:29:14Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Not pedantry. Sloppiness, either intentional or otherwise on your part. The triggering of the search is being booked into jail, not the offense, which is what your post implied. And the action is as much to protect the people in jail, including the new person, as anything else. No one reading your post without being familiar with the case would know that. A parking ticket is a legal violation. Can you be strip searched for that? No? Then I am correct in saying “almost” any legal violation. There are legal violations that do not see you booked into a jail and thus cannot result in a strip search. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-gestapo-tactics-begin-ows/620505/19 "2012-05-01T15:31:47Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > When I opened the thread, I really was expecting the reference to brownshirt tactics being the vandalism that occurred last night in San Francisco, where protesters were breaking car windows, mashed up some businesses, and attacked a police station. But was anyone arrested on a warrant for their arrest? If not then it obviously doesn’t rise to the level of evil that happened in New York. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-gestapo-tactics-begin-ows/620505/20 "2012-05-01T15:32:46Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > When I opened the thread, I really was expecting the reference to brownshirt tactics being the vandalism that occurred last night in San Francisco, where protesters were breaking car windows, mashed up some businesses, and attacked a police station. You are conflating the Brown Shirts with the Gestapo I think. Hitler had a lot of them killed during the Night of the Long Knives. The Gestapo were the Nazi’s secret police force. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-so-the-gestapo-tactics-begin-ows/620505.md?page=2)