# And suddenly, the lights went out. In all of Spain and Portugal **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 28, 2025, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611 "2025-04-28T15:33:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611/21 "2025-04-28T17:54:31Z")
Just a data point. Texas has caved and is planning to join the southeastern grid. > **[ERCOT Power Grid Set To Connect To U.S. Grid](https://electricityrates.com/resources/ercot-connection-to-us-grid/)** > > ERCOT power grid will connect with the U.S. grid, boosting energy reliability for Texas and the Southeast. Learn about the $360M project, timeline, & benefits. Caveat. A Biden grant is helping, and who knows if that will be canceled or not. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611/22 "2025-04-28T18:12:11Z")
Britain both imports and exports electricity. Imports vary, but reached nearly 20% last year, mostly from France and Norway, but also from Denmark, the Netherlands, Belgium, and Ireland. Exports are mostly to Ireland, but also to all the others. This trading is due to the need to balance supply and demand. “_On the one hand, Britain’s growing dependence on its neighbours for electricity goes against the government’s push for energy independence. On the other hand, interconnectors help to balance out the variability of wind and solar power, and support the aim to rapidly decarbonise electricity. There is a key distinction to make between importing because we are unable to supply our own needs versus importing to lower the cost of electricity._” ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611/23 "2025-04-28T19:34:59Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > The U.S. is physically too large for a single grid. Europe is not smaller than the USA. And it works. Except in Spain and in Portugal, right now. We added **[Ukraine when war started](https://energysecurityua.org/news/how-did-ukraine-synchronize-with-the-eu-s-power-system-and-why-is-it-important-for-the-country-s-energy-security/)**: > On February 24, 2022, Ukraine started scheduled testing of the power system in island mode, which was supposed to last three days and prove that Ukraine’s power system is resilient as a prerequisite for synchronization with the European power system in 2023. > Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine on the same day, February 24, caused Ukraine to be disconnected from the aggressor’s power system forever. In less than a month, on March 16, 2022, one of the most important events occurred for the development and security of Ukraine’s energy sector – synchronization of the Ukrainian and Moldovan power systems (UA/MD) with ENTSO-E. This emergency interconnection is an important milestone in Ukraine’s integration into European energy markets. > [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > History and politics also factor into it. Same here (see last two paragraphs). But it has been a story mostly of progress towards integration. > [@bob\_2](#): > > Britain both imports and exports electricity. All countries in Europe do both, but Britain does it differently, of course. And the story about integration does not really apply there, not since Brexit, anyway. And British electrons travel on the left side of the cable. 😉 But their lights did not go out today, that I must concede. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611/24 "2025-04-28T19:43:19Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > But their lights did not go out today, that I must concede. I suspect that because we had a lovely sunny day, solar was pumping plenty of megawatts into the National Grid. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611/25 "2025-04-28T19:48:23Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > solar was pumping plenty of megawatts into the National Grid. That can actually be destabilizing for a grid! It is not easy to combine traditional electricity generation, which is mostly relatively stable and foreseeable, with solar and wind, which are not, or at least not always. Or so the utilities in Germany like to tell us to increase the grid access fees and generally make feeding into the grid very difficult and not lucrative at all for micro-producers (i.e.: the typical rooftop solar panel owner). No quote off the top of my head, but I guess it is the same everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611/26 "2025-04-28T20:14:09Z")
BTW, the link about adding Ukraine, two posts ago, I forgot to mention that that was from USAID. Remember the time when the USA fostered European integration? I am a bit surprised that some (@Stranger_On_A_Train and @engineer_comp_geek, for instance) write that this is a can of worms and controversial in the US. TIL that the USA ~~knows~~ knew that grid integration is a good idea, helped made it happen abroad, for instance in Ukraine, but struggles to do the same in the USA? Oh, dear… Meanwhile the Guardian paints an idyllic picture of the power outages in Spain: > **[In Madrid, electricity outages can’t hold a candle to people power](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/apr/28/in-madrid-electricty-outages-cant-hold-a-candle-to-people-power)** > > The lights may be out, but life goes on for families and businesses across the Spanish capital I suspect this is a bit too rosy. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611/27 "2025-04-28T20:30:01Z")
I was going to fly to Spain a few hours ago (edit - from Amsterdam, not the US). I checked my bag and was going through security when I heard the news. The guy who checked me in said the flight is delayed because there are a lot of delays in Madrid but didn’t mention why that might be. I was very busy and didn’t see the news by then. Seems like they should’ve warned people. To be fair he was very helpful when I decided to cancel. Because I had already checked my bag it was a bit of an ordeal to get it back. They made me run around the airport like 4 times and getting interrogated by the guy who is the only one authorized to send people from pre-security to the baggage area, and by the time I got done with all of that, the flight was cancelled and everyone’s bags were already on the carousel. I was planning on spending the next 3 weeks in Spain and Portugal. Not sure what to do now. If they get the grid back and functioning very soon then it’s probably not such a big deal. Lots of travel backlogs to clear. But if it runs longer, there will be a big disruption, and I don’t want burden people with a tourist running around while they’re just trying to get their shit together. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611/28 "2025-04-28T20:41:39Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > I am a bit surprised that some (@Stranger_On_A_Train and @engineer_comp_geek, for instance) write that this is a can of worms and controversial in the US. TIL that the USA ~~knows~~ knew that grid integration is a good idea, helped made it happen abroad, for instance in Ukraine, but struggles to do the same in the USA? Oh, dear… Electrical utilities (which own pieces of each individual grid) are all controlled by state or regional companies many of which grew up somewhat independently and later joined in a synchronized AC grid. There is no direct federal control over utilities, and it wasn’t even until the late 1960s that the Easter and Western grids had high voltage direct current (HVDC) interconnects allowing them to send or receive electricity (and they remain unsynchronized today). There is an entire history about this but it largely has to do with the way grids developed from their respective coasts inland and the fact that unlike Europe or Asia, the continental United States never went through a reconstruction process after WWII, and thus there was no impetus to harmonize the grids the of the synchronous grid across Western Europe in the post-war reconstruction (and extended into Eastern Europe post-Cold War). I have no explanation for the Texas Interconnection and ERCOT except…Texas. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611/29 "2025-04-28T21:17:58Z")
I am in Spain, staying at my sister’s. I should have been on a train to Madrid in order to go to a clinic, but the power went out just before I was to board my train. Still at my sister’s, waiting to see when the clinic will be able to see me. Electricity is not yet back in the place I am now. Hopefully at some point during the night? It will soon be 12 hours without power here. Across Spain power has been restored to several places. It seems that it is coming back from north to south. @senorbeef, I think you will be able to have your trip in Spain 🙂 Just be patient 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611/30 "2025-04-28T21:43:48Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > I don’t know how long the power backup will last. If it’s all batteries, it won’t stay up long. It may not have to last that long - I think in 2003 power was restored to some in just a few hours and to everyone within 24. Certainly inconvenient, but these sorts of things don’t typically last days and days. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611/31 "2025-04-28T22:19:40Z")
[And suddenly, the lights went out. In all of Spain and Portugal](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611) At least they didn’t hang an innocent man. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611/32 "2025-04-28T22:23:23Z")
Lots of pilgrims stranded on the Camino routes. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611/33 "2025-04-28T22:24:56Z")
Most of Spain is back up again. There is likely to be small groups here and there that doen’t come back up again because something failed, and you don’t notice until you try to switch it off and back on again. There is some indication that it might have been triggered by a failure of power coming in from France, and the local grid fell over without that. Spain is a major wind producer, so they may require base support from French nuclear, or it may be the case (like Australia), that the grid required regulation that didn’t work without the interconnect, and the wind simply shut down. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611/34 "2025-04-28T22:31:51Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I was planning on spending the next 3 weeks in Spain and Portugal. And just wanted to make sure Teslas would not be able to charge, wouldn’t you? This is getting suspicioner and suspicioner, Sir! > [@solost](#): > > Just kidding! I think it’s pretty obvious, but I don’t want any chance of anybody thinking I’m accusing a fellow doper of international espionage ☺ Same here, just in case. Only the word is not espionage but sabotage. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611/35 "2025-04-28T22:43:25Z")
I know, I got the proper ‘-age’ wrong. Tried to correct it but just missed the edit window. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611/36 "2025-04-28T22:51:19Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > It is kind of shocking, Literally! Well, potentially. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611/37 "2025-04-28T22:57:22Z")
I’m sure many people also have generators. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611/38 "2025-04-29T00:17:18Z")
I was in the 1965 blackout and remember it clearly. I was 7. At the time I thought, “hey, I didn’t know that the house was heated by lightbulbs.” 😀 ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611/39 "2025-04-29T00:42:42Z")
It will power your stuff(router/modem) if you have a generator. But if your whole region is out your provider may be down too. Internet is the absolute first thing that goes here. Then TV service. God we are spoiled to our services. (And its all held together with hay wire and duct tape) ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611/40 "2025-04-29T01:02:27Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > [And suddenly, the lights went out. In all of Spain and Portugal](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611) > > At least they didn’t hang an innocent man. Nicely done. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611.md?page=3)