# And suddenly, the lights went out. In all of Spain and Portugal **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 28, 2025, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611 "2025-04-28T15:33:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611/41 "2025-04-29T01:12:22Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > Most of Spain is back up again. So is Portugal, according to my friend who lives there. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611/42 "2025-04-29T04:18:06Z")
Both Spain & Portugal had only weak interconnectivity with the rest of the European grid. Rather like the Texas grid in North America. Not too long ago, the Texas grid had a cascading failure during cold weather, causing much suffering in Texas. Since then, the public has been demanding that the Texas grid become more connected to the other North American grids. It’s possible that after this failure, the Iberian (Spain & Portugal) will also increase their connectivity to the European grid – they have been operating in what is sometimes called ‘Island mode’ (rather like Ireland & Britain) to the European grid. Generally, greater interconnectivity make the power more reliable, because there are more connections to the grid to compensate for cascading power interruptions. As to why some areas, like Texas & the Iberian peninsula, prefer to operate as ‘islands’ rather than closely connect into the grid – _ **“follow the money”.** _ The profit-making companies controlling electricity in those areas can make more money by being more isolated from the big grid. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611/43 "2025-04-29T07:49:13Z")
Generators, in Spain? Perhaps in rural areas, but I never heard of anyone having one in the cities I lived in. When you read articles about how people are coping they are taking the children to granny, who has a gas stove, so the food os warm. They are not taking them to the weird uncle with the generator. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > > [@Jackmannii](#): > > > > At least they didn’t hang an innocent man. > > Nicely done. Another cultural reference I am not getting? Aw, come on, gimme a footnote… please. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611/44 "2025-04-29T07:53:07Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > Another cultural reference I am not getting? Aw, come on, gimme a footnote… please. > **[The Night the Lights Went Out in Georgia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Night_the_Lights_Went_Out_in_Georgia)** > > "The Night the Lights Went Out in Georgia" is a Southern Gothic murder ballad, written in 1972 by songwriter Bobby Russell and first recorded by his then-wife, singer, comedian and actress, Vicki Lawrence. Lawrence's version, from her 1973 album of the same title, went to number one on the US Billboard Hot 100 chart after its release. Of several cover versions, the one recorded by Reba McEntire for her 1991 album For My Broken Heart peaked at number 12 on the Hot Country Songs chart. > The unnam... > **[Reba McEntire – The Night the Lights Went Out in Georgia](https://genius.com/Reba-mcentire-the-night-the-lights-went-out-in-georgia-lyrics)** > > \[Verse 1\] / He was on his way home from Candletop / Been two weeks gone and he thought he'd stop / At Web's and have him a drink 'fore he went home to her / Andy Wo-Lo said hello ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611/45 "2025-04-29T08:05:28Z")
Can confirm. My brother in law has a generator, but it is for a small house that is literally in the middle of nowhere, right in his fields (my brother in law has lands and they grow barley). Actually my nephew said “maybe we could go get the generator…” and my brother in law said “are you daft? How are we going to lug a thing that weighs more than 100 kg up all the stairs to the flat?” (My sister, with whom I am right now, lives in a high-rise building in the main city in this area. Also, my nephew is 20). ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611/46 "2025-04-29T09:04:53Z")
I’ve been too busy to read too much news but it sounds like most of it is fixed? ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611/47 "2025-04-29T10:15:23Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > it sounds like most of it is fixed? Yes, it’s getting better all the time. Thanks for the murder ballad reference, @Dr.Strangelove ! Will listen. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611/48 "2025-04-29T10:28:25Z")
Here is an excellent explainer on the challenge of restarting a power grid after a sudden major failure like this. > **[Spain is about to face the challenge of a “black start”](https://arstechnica.com/science/2025/04/why-restarting-a-power-grid-is-so-hard/)** > > Major power facilities require power to operate, and there’s lots of unmet demand. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611/49 "2025-04-29T10:41:28Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > All countries in Europe do both, but Britain does it differently, of course. And the story about integration does not really apply there, not since Brexit, anyway. And British electrons travel on the left side of the cable. 😉 > But their lights did not go out today, that I must concede. > [@bob\_2](#): > > I suspect that because we had a lovely sunny day, solar was pumping plenty of megawatts into the National Grid. > [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > That can actually be destabilizing for a grid! It is not easy to combine traditional electricity generation, which is mostly relatively stable and foreseeable, with solar and wind, which are not, or at least not always. So in probably related news, I got a message from my electricity supplier last night offering half price overnight. I’m _already_ on a cheap overnight tariff but the message was very clear: plug your car in, set the washing machine to come on overnight, splurge splurge splurge on this cheap electron bonanza. But also, please don’t do any of that tomorrow night (i.e. 29/04/25) or you won’t get the deal. So it feels like some urgent load balancing of sorts was being done. That hasn’t happened on previous sunny days, so probably not a coincidence it happened in the aftermath of the Iberian powercut. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611/50 "2025-04-29T10:43:58Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Just a minor disagreement with an otherwise excellent post; the issue isn’t that the United States or North America is physically too big for a unified grid but because largely of policy; While the grid is technically a patchwork of smaller systems, the smaller grids that make up the major grids are tied together synchronously. When they tried to tie the east and west grids together into a single synchronous grid back in the late 60s or early 70s (somewhere around there, IIRC), they ran into oscillations and stability issues. The AC links between the two grids were removed and replaced with DC interties, which remain to this day. Europe’s grid is slightly larger than either the east or west North American grids, but it’s not as large as both combined. It might be possible to create a larger grid these days with modern technology that can overcome the stability issues, but back when I was in EE school (back in the days of dinosaurs) they taught us that a grid as large as the entire North American continent just wasn’t practical. ---
**Author:** ![LivingGhost371](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b9e5f3/32.png) [@LivingGhost371](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LivingGhost371)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611/51 "2025-04-29T11:13:49Z")
Sounds like this is a High Voltage DC transmission line. So technically not “joining the grid” in the sense that the AC power frequency is now going to be synchronized to it. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611/52 "2025-04-29T14:53:15Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > the challenge of restarting a power grid after a sudden major failure like this. Not proud to say they could call Puerto Rico for pointers, where we’re doing this like twice a year by now… ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611/53 "2025-04-29T15:20:14Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Not proud to say they could call Puerto Rico for pointers, where we’re doing this like twice a year by now… If there’s one place that really needs microgrids, it’s Puerto Rico. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611/54 "2025-04-29T17:12:00Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > Yes, it’s getting better all the time. Better, Better, Better! > [@LivingGhost371](#): > > Sounds like this is a High Voltage DC transmission line. So technically not “joining the grid” in the sense that the AC power frequency is now going to be synchronized to it. I may not be understanding a technical point you’re making, but [all three grids in America already](https://www.energy.gov/oe/learn-more-about-interconnections) “operate at a synchronized frequency operating at an average of 60Hz.” They will continue to do so when the high power lines are built to move power in and out of Texas, just as they everywhere high power lines exist. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611/55 "2025-04-29T17:17:26Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I may not be understanding a technical point you’re making, but [all three grids in America already](https://www.energy.gov/oe/learn-more-about-interconnections) “operate at a synchronized frequency operating at an average of 60Hz.” I believe each grid is internally synchronized. The DC interconnects allow each grid to remain asynchronous from the other grid connecting to it. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611/56 "2025-04-29T17:26:25Z")
I see. “Joining the grid” is imprecise technical language but would be used in newspaper stories, e.g., so as not to frighten the public by talking about possible asynchronous damage. Would that be more accurate? ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611/57 "2025-04-29T17:32:27Z")
The grids are joined, but think of it as having a transmission in the middle. Your engine and wheels don’t need to spin at the same speed. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611/58 "2025-04-29T17:41:48Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I may not be understanding a technical point you’re making, but [all three grids in America already](https://www.energy.gov/oe/learn-more-about-interconnections) “operate at a synchronized frequency operating at an average of 60Hz.” They will continue to do so when the high power lines are built to move power in and out of Texas, just as they everywhere high power lines exist. That is not correct. Although all North American interconnects operate with 60 Hz and 120 VAC, each interconnect ‘grid’ is independently synchronized and can only distribute electrical power between them via HVDC, inverting the incoming direct current to a synchronized alternating current. As far as limitations on geographic extent, the (PRC) Chinese State Grid is one unified interconnect that has roughly the same geographic extent as the continental United States and ~1,700 GW of generation capacity, which is more than all of North America. The Unified Energy System grid has an even larger geographical extent covering essentially all of the Russian Federation as far east as Krasnoyarsk Krai, although I don’t think the generation capacity is nearly as large (can’t find any recent figures) and I suspect the grid thins out considerably once you get east of the Ob River. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611/59 "2025-04-29T19:28:16Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > Thanks for the murder ballad reference, @Dr.Strangelove ! Will listen. We do like our murder ballads here. It’s a catchy song even if the lyrics don’t make a whole lot of sense. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611/60 "2025-04-29T20:36:08Z")
At the risk of a hijack, what doesn’t make sense? A man paid for his sister’s crime, and the sister sang a song about it, justifying her actions and critiquing the Georgia justice system at the same time. Her motivations don’t make a lot of sense (really? you murder your sister-in-law for cheating on your brother? That’s not the sign of a well-balanced person). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-suddenly-the-lights-went-out-in-all-of-spain-and-portugal/1017611.md?page=4)