# And the cancer begins to fester in the Eagles clubhouse... T.O. wants more money. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 15, 2005, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-cancer-begins-to-fester-in-the-eagles-clubhouse-t-o-wants-more-money/299499 "2005-04-15T17:06:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-cancer-begins-to-fester-in-the-eagles-clubhouse-t-o-wants-more-money/299499/21 "2005-04-15T21:41:54Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Yeah, but I have a feeling two of those might be off to Dallas to move up to the 20th spot to grab a better WR. Clayton looks like the best bet for a ready to start WR in the latter half of the draft. Well, I’d count that as two picks, then. They need DL help, too, though. I’m thinking they might take WRs in the 2nd and/or 3rd rounds and put up with Owens for a year until they’re ready; that fits Reid’s m.o. of drafting ahead of need. Rosenhaus is doing this because he has to do so to impress his new client. If his counsel was to do nothing, Owens asks himself why he hired this guy (alternatively, Rosenhaus got TO as a client by promising he’d try for a better deal). If he plays a little chicken with the team, he solidifies his rep as a hard-ass negotiator, and gets 10% of Owen’s next contract. For that very reason, he’d be a fool to actually hold TO out of regular-season games; it solidifies _his_ rep as a cancer and hurts the market value. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-cancer-begins-to-fester-in-the-eagles-clubhouse-t-o-wants-more-money/299499/22 "2005-04-15T23:22:02Z")
Yeah, it’s going to be the absolute _ruin_ of the franchise, just like it was last year, remember? TO was going to rip the team apart then, too, right up to the point where all they had to do was maintain fucking possession of the ball to win the fucking Super Bowl. Hell, maybe if the Real Ultimate Cancer hadn’t gotten bitch-tackled and shattered his leg, they would’ve won it all. I just don’t understand why anybody would think TO has that kind of power that he’s going to seriously damage the Eagles. It’s not like Andy Reid and Joe Banner are friggin’ shocked by all this. They knew what they were getting, which is why they structured the contract to be, essentially, a two-years-and-bail deal, so they could cut him loose without a big hit when he started getting all primadonna on them. TO has no cards to play in this situation. When you’re locked into a contract, and when Andy Reid’s fat ass is on the other side of the see-saw, it doesn’t matter if you’re Drew Rosenhaus or a forklift – you’ve got no leverage. There are only two options here: TO leaves town, and with him goes The Fear, or TO stays in town under his current contract, and gets 14 more scores. He’s a sideshow. As long as he was getting his 7 catches for a buck twenty and a touchdown, they were willing to chance it. Now he’s saying he’ll sit, so OK, fuck you Terrell, good luck finding a better contract now that you’ve sat out an entire season. The Eagles aren’t going to allow this to become a soap opera, and they certainly aren’t going to allow it to rip the team apart. It’ll be over, one way or another, by July 1st. No matter what happens, if you think this is going to shatter the franchise completely, well, you’re probably the kind of person who thought TO was going to shatter the franchise last season, too. Incidentally, it is a shitty contract, and TO is underpaid. He just should’ve thought of that when he had the option to do so. The fact that he’s a millionaire doesn’t change the fact that he’s clearly correct when he says he outperformed his contract. ---
**Author:** ![Proudest\_Monkey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/proudest_monkey/32/13257_2.png) [@Proudest\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Proudest_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-cancer-begins-to-fester-in-the-eagles-clubhouse-t-o-wants-more-money/299499/23 "2005-04-15T23:58:30Z")
Patriots fan checking in. I’ve been spoiled for the past several years under the reign of Belichek and his crew. I’ve seen how a team can operate and succeed when the players are all about the **team** rather than all about themselves. As fans, we laugh at T.O. and his ilk. Bob Kraft and Belichek would never sign a player like that–just doesn’t fit into their concept of football. And you can’t argue with the results their concept have achieved. I told my husband (Giants fan) at the beginning of last season: no matter how good Owens is (and he **is** amazingly talented), his attitude and ego will eventually poison that team. If not sooner, then later. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2005, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-cancer-begins-to-fester-in-the-eagles-clubhouse-t-o-wants-more-money/299499/24 "2005-04-16T00:02:08Z")
> [@Jimmy Chitwood](#): > > Incidentally, it is a shitty contract, and TO is underpaid. He just should’ve thought of that when he had the option to do so. The fact that he’s a millionaire doesn’t change the fact that he’s clearly correct when he says he outperformed his contract. What a load. A contract is a contract. You’d never see an NFL team ask a player to restructure his contract in order to take less money, so why should TO get to ask for more money? Oh wait… ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2005, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-cancer-begins-to-fester-in-the-eagles-clubhouse-t-o-wants-more-money/299499/25 "2005-04-16T00:09:25Z")
Fucking right. A contract is a contract, unless you’re kind of getting older, and you just have such a huge cap number next year, and the team’s sort of strapped for cash, you know, and couldn’t you just take some performance incentives in lieu of actual salary? We don’t want to have to cut you, you understand, but this is a _business_. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2005, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-cancer-begins-to-fester-in-the-eagles-clubhouse-t-o-wants-more-money/299499/26 "2005-04-16T00:39:46Z")
> [@Proudest Monkey](#): > > Patriots fan checking in. I’ve been spoiled for the past several years under the reign of Belichek and his crew. I’ve seen how a team can operate and succeed when the players are all about the **team** rather than all about themselves. As fans, we laugh at T.O. and his ilk. Bob Kraft and Belichek would never sign a player like that–just doesn’t fit into their concept of football. And you can’t argue with the results their concept have achieved. [Ty Law](http://enterprise.southofboston.com/articles/2004/03/13/news/sports/sports02.txt) > [@](#): > > But at the same time, wherever I’m at, I just want to be paid what I deserve to get paid. And to be truthfully honest with you, I deserve to be the highest-paid cornerback in the NFL. But that’s not of the utmost importance right now because the team that I’ve proven that for and the team I’ve busted my ass for the last nine years doesn’t realize or can’t see [that] they’re not giving me the proper respect or the contract that I deserve [Corey Dillon](http://www.cincypost.com/sports/2000/beng072500.html) > [@](#): > > The reality of the Dillon negotiations is that the star-crossed Pro Bowl running back has remained firm on a pledge he made more than seven months ago: Get me outta here. > > Dillon, who has rushed for at least 1,100 yards in each of his first three seasons, remains in Seattle - a fairly bitter holdout. He has telephoned some of his teammates who are with the club at training camp at Georgetown College, guys such as Sedrick Shaw, just to see what’s up. > > Dillon and his agent, Los Angeles-based Marvin Demoff, have implied in media reports that they’d like something a little closer to the contract extension running back Eddie George received from the Tennessee Titans - $42 million over six years, with a $10 million signing bonus. Ben Watson held out before he even got on the field. Lawyer Milloy was a “player like that,” and he was a huge part of Belichik teams for years. Blow it out your ass. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2005, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-cancer-begins-to-fester-in-the-eagles-clubhouse-t-o-wants-more-money/299499/27 "2005-04-16T12:05:01Z")
The NFL has jerked its employees around on their contracts for years, so I can only get so upset over TO jerking them around a bit. The instant you underperform, your contract gets made null and void and you’re hunting around for a new offer. Overperform, and it’s tough titties? I’m curious how this will all play out. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2005, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-cancer-begins-to-fester-in-the-eagles-clubhouse-t-o-wants-more-money/299499/28 "2005-04-16T14:37:14Z")
> [@Jimmy Chitwood](#): > > It’ll be over, one way or another, by July 1st. Nah, I think he’ll piss and moan all the way to training camp. But you’re absolutely right: “When you’re locked into a contract, and when Andy Reid’s fat ass is on the other side of the see-saw, it doesn’t matter if you’re Drew Rosenhaus or a forklift – you’ve got no leverage.” Reid will _not_ cave. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2005, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-cancer-begins-to-fester-in-the-eagles-clubhouse-t-o-wants-more-money/299499/29 "2005-04-16T16:34:02Z")
I wonder if Al Davis would pick him up? Moss and Owens would require a lockeroom with a retractable roof to fit their heads, and an oncologist would have to be on staff to fight the cancer. But Al Davis could sell some Jerseys. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2005, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-cancer-begins-to-fester-in-the-eagles-clubhouse-t-o-wants-more-money/299499/30 "2005-04-16T19:22:55Z")
> [@Jimmy Chitwood](#): > > Incidentally, it is a shitty contract, and TO is underpaid. He just should’ve thought of that when he had the option to do so. The fact that he’s a millionaire doesn’t change the fact that he’s clearly correct when he says he outperformed his contract. You and people like you kill me. There is NO SUCH THING as outperforming a contract. The very concept doesn’t exist. A contract is only as valuable as the numbers agreed to. He has fulfilled his contract to this point. Once the contract is up he can sign a new one, potentially with numbers he agrees with. There is no renegotiation, nor should there be. But nooooo, we have guys like you that encourage breach of contract amongst these overpaid primadonnas. These guys deserve to get what they are owed by their contracts. No more, no less. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2005, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-cancer-begins-to-fester-in-the-eagles-clubhouse-t-o-wants-more-money/299499/31 "2005-04-16T19:56:05Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > You and people like you kill me. There is NO SUCH THING as outperforming a contract. The very concept doesn’t exist. A contract is only as valuable as the numbers agreed to. He has fulfilled his contract to this point. Once the contract is up he can sign a new one, potentially with numbers he agrees with. There is no renegotiation, nor should there be. But nooooo, we have guys like you that encourage breach of contract amongst these overpaid primadonnas. > > These guys deserve to get what they are owed by their contracts. No more, no less. Of course there is. I think everyone here needs a little history lesson. Qwen’s old [agent](http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/7121229) screwed up and forgot to send in his paperwork that would have made him a free agent 2 years ago. He signed the Eagles contract because he had no leverage. [Drew](http://www.fanball.com/fb/playerProfile.cfm/pid.1530) Rosenhaus explains: > [@](#): > > “This was not a normal negotiation,” Rosenhaus told ESPN Radio on Thursday. “He had to take a substandard deal because he had no leverage… It sounds great on paper but in the first two years of the deal **he is not even in the top 10 highest-paid receivers in the NFL** … He absolutely outperformed his deal. I’ve had many players that have been cut when they underperformed despite having just done a multiyear deal the year before, like Hugh Douglas with the Jaguars. Why can’t we say that he outperformed this deal, which was done under poor circumstances?” Owens has requested that the Eagles **restructure the seven-year contract he signed last season**. He wants to restructure a deal that he signed while the Eagles had him over a barrel. To claim that it’s fine for them to take advantage and that he can’t is pretty hypocritical. All he wants to do is restructure. It’s not like he wants to bankrupt the team. BTW, I am an Eagles fan. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2005, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-cancer-begins-to-fester-in-the-eagles-clubhouse-t-o-wants-more-money/299499/32 "2005-04-16T20:09:51Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > You and people like you kill me. There is NO SUCH THING as outperforming a contract. The very concept doesn’t exist. A contract is only as valuable as the numbers agreed to. He has fulfilled his contract to this point. Once the contract is up he can sign a new one, potentially with numbers he agrees with. There is no renegotiation, nor should there be. But nooooo, we have guys like you that encourage breach of contract amongst these overpaid primadonnas. > > These guys deserve to get what they are owed by their contracts. No more, no less. So, I assume you are also against teams forcing players to renegotiate their contracts in order to pay them less money? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2005, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-cancer-begins-to-fester-in-the-eagles-clubhouse-t-o-wants-more-money/299499/33 "2005-04-16T22:51:47Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > So, I assume you are also against teams forcing players to renegotiate their contracts in order to pay them less money? That doesn’t happen very often. Sometimes if a guy gets a demotion from starter to 2nd string they’ll redo the contract so they pay him less money. More often they’ll reduce his salary to the minimum allowed and give him the rest as a signing bonus which can be spread out over the course of the contract, thus giving them more cap room. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2005, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-cancer-begins-to-fester-in-the-eagles-clubhouse-t-o-wants-more-money/299499/34 "2005-04-16T22:55:47Z")
Doesn’t the signing bonus affect the cap as well, or is that me misremembering something from Madden 2005? ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2005, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-cancer-begins-to-fester-in-the-eagles-clubhouse-t-o-wants-more-money/299499/35 "2005-04-16T23:19:25Z")
> [@Jimmy Chitwood](#): > > [Ty Law](http://enterprise.southofboston.com/articles/2004/03/13/news/sports/sports02.txt) > > [Corey Dillon](http://www.cincypost.com/sports/2000/beng072500.html) > > Ben Watson held out before he even got on the field. Lawyer Milloy was a “player like that,” and he was a huge part of Belichik teams for years. Blow it out your ass. It would be more accurate to say that Kraft and Belichick won’t KEEP a player like that. They’re certainly willing to give talented players – Dillon being the prime example – a chance if they are willing to lose the 'tude. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2005, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-cancer-begins-to-fester-in-the-eagles-clubhouse-t-o-wants-more-money/299499/36 "2005-04-17T00:10:33Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > That doesn’t happen very often. Sometimes if a guy gets a demotion from starter to 2nd string they’ll redo the contract so they pay him less money. More often they’ll reduce his salary to the minimum allowed and give him the rest as a signing bonus which can be spread out over the course of the contract, thus giving them more cap room. It happens all the time. A player is normally given the option of taking less money or being cut. It happened to Bledsoe this year, Kerry Collins and Eddy George last year. Those are just off the top of my head but every off-season involves cutting people that won’t take a pay cut. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2005, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-cancer-begins-to-fester-in-the-eagles-clubhouse-t-o-wants-more-money/299499/37 "2005-04-17T00:16:12Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > Doesn’t the signing bonus affect the cap as well, or is that me misremembering something from Madden 2005? It does, but it can be prorated over the length of the contract, making cap management easier. > [@treis](#): > > It happens all the time. A player is normally given the option of taking less money or being cut. It happened to Bledsoe this year, Kerry Collins and Eddy George last year. Those are just off the top of my head but every off-season involves cutting people that won’t take a pay cut. Yeah, but it was pretty obvious that those three players didn’t fit into their teams’ plans. Offering them a smaller salary was just a courtesy. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2005, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-cancer-begins-to-fester-in-the-eagles-clubhouse-t-o-wants-more-money/299499/38 "2005-04-17T01:02:37Z")
> [@treis](#): > > It happens all the time. A player is normally given the option of taking less money or being cut. Are you talking about players under contract, or those involved in a contract negotiation? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2005, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-cancer-begins-to-fester-in-the-eagles-clubhouse-t-o-wants-more-money/299499/39 "2005-04-17T01:14:58Z")
Those under contract. Another off of the top of my head is Brian Greise in Miami. He had a roster bonus due and Miami was going to cut him if he didn’t renegotiate his contract. Very often players are signed to contracts that the teams have no intention of honoring in the last few years. Look at Owen’s contract for example he signed a 7 year deal worth 48 million w/ a 10 million dollar signing bonus. What are the chances of the Eagles paying a 38 year old Owens 6 million or so in the last year of his contract? About as close to zero as you can get. I garuntee that in 5 or 6 years if Owen’s is still on the Eagles he will be asked to take a pay cut or will be waived. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2005, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-cancer-begins-to-fester-in-the-eagles-clubhouse-t-o-wants-more-money/299499/40 "2005-04-17T01:53:38Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I garuntee that in 5 or 6 years if Owen’s is still on the Eagles he will be asked to take a pay cut or will be waived. So his contract states that he can be waived and as a consequence not paid? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-cancer-begins-to-fester-in-the-eagles-clubhouse-t-o-wants-more-money/299499.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-cancer-begins-to-fester-in-the-eagles-clubhouse-t-o-wants-more-money/299499.md?page=3)