# "And the Horse may learn to sing." **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [February 13, 2021, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-horse-may-learn-to-sing/932812 "2021-02-13T03:00:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-horse-may-learn-to-sing/932812/1 "2021-02-13T03:00:27Z")
I want to use the fable of the “horse may learn to sing” from _The Mote in God’s Eye_, but I can’t find my copy. Would anyone have the patience to scan or type it in for me, or point to an online source? ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-horse-may-learn-to-sing/932812/2 "2021-02-13T03:05:30Z")
Is this all that you need? > **[“THE MOTE IN GOD’S EYE” – Niven & Pournelle (1974)](https://nervesquidpilot.com/2015/02/26/cycles-of-time-civilisation-the-mote-in-gods-eye-niven-pournelle-1974/)** > > A thief was on trial before the Sultan and sentenced to death. He asked the Sultan to spare his life. “You don’t know it, but I am the greatest teacher in your land. If you spare my lif… ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-horse-may-learn-to-sing/932812/3 "2021-02-13T03:23:43Z")
That’s exactly it! Thanks. My google skills are obviously not very good. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-horse-may-learn-to-sing/932812/4 "2021-02-13T13:49:55Z")
Was that really the origin of the story? I had assumed that it was floating around long before Niven and Pournelle used it. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-horse-may-learn-to-sing/932812/5 "2021-02-13T14:23:17Z")
That’s the only place I’ve seen it. Haven’t looked for I anywhere else, though. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-horse-may-learn-to-sing/932812/6 "2021-02-13T16:42:51Z")
This horse already learned: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/U5LbxkvE0Wo/hqdefault.jpg "Singing horse from Top Secret") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5LbxkvE0Wo) ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-horse-may-learn-to-sing/932812/7 "2021-02-13T16:51:02Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Was that really the origin of the story? I had assumed that it was floating around long before Niven and Pournelle used it. I think that it’s a very old folk tale. I first heard it as a young kid in the early 70s as a Jewish folk tale with a talking horse and a king. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-horse-may-learn-to-sing/932812/8 "2021-02-13T16:54:52Z")
This guy dates it to at least 1930 but thinks it’s much older. > **[King Louis’ Talking Horse](https://bradfordunconsideredtrifles.wordpress.com/2014/09/13/king-louis-talking-horse/)** > > I wonder if you have ever come across the story of ‘King Louis’ talking horse’. I have met this parable, which lends support to the most incurable optimism, on several occasions o… ---
**Author:** ![Mikkel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikkel/32/13151_2.png) [@Mikkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikkel)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-horse-may-learn-to-sing/932812/9 "2021-02-13T17:04:26Z")
[Hodja Nasreddin](https://yesprem.wordpress.com/2011/08/28/nasrudin-and-the-sultans-horse/) In the Mote In Gods Eye the story is credited to Herodotus. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-horse-may-learn-to-sing/932812/10 "2021-02-13T17:29:20Z")
In my link above yours, the author makes the claim that he is familiar with Herodotus and it appears nowhere in his writings. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-horse-may-learn-to-sing/932812/11 "2021-02-13T23:03:15Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > That’s the only place I’ve seen it. Haven’t looked for I anywhere else, though. Not that you would have found it anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2021, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-horse-may-learn-to-sing/932812/12 "2021-02-14T14:02:22Z")
Somehow I had the impression that it was a Russian folk story. ---
**Author:** ![Mikkel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikkel/32/13151_2.png) [@Mikkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikkel)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2021, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-horse-may-learn-to-sing/932812/13 "2021-02-14T14:34:08Z")
Sorry, didn’t remember that. Niven or Pournelle apparently thought so. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2021, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-horse-may-learn-to-sing/932812/14 "2021-02-14T19:23:19Z")
I’ve been under the impression that it’s an old Jewish story. However, when I think about it, I don’t know whether that’s because I originally came across it in that context, or just because it has that sort of flavor. ---
**Author:** ![Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Springtime_for_Spacers)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2021, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-horse-may-learn-to-sing/932812/15 "2021-02-14T20:08:38Z")
In the versions I have read the horse is supposed to talk not sing. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/898d66/32.png) [@Johnny\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Q)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2021, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-horse-may-learn-to-sing/932812/16 "2021-02-14T22:50:52Z")
I’ve heard it attributed to the Mullah [Nasrudin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasreddin) and it was about teaching the horse to fly.