# And the niggers will rise up against the porch monkeys **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 13, 2011, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-niggers-will-rise-up-against-the-porch-monkeys/606103 "2011-12-13T23:34:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Faruiza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecd19e/32.png) [@Faruiza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Faruiza)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-niggers-will-rise-up-against-the-porch-monkeys/606103/61 "2011-12-15T01:18:39Z")
You guys are so silly. šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-niggers-will-rise-up-against-the-porch-monkeys/606103/62 "2011-12-15T03:22:37Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Poor whites are, at least to some extent, so that takes out ā€˜crackerā€™ and ā€˜redneckā€™ right there. Not racially, so its ok to call them hillbillies. If anything, their oppression is by the rich, which are disproportionately white. Rich rednecks, basically ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-niggers-will-rise-up-against-the-porch-monkeys/606103/63 "2011-12-15T03:38:02Z")
[Happy Monkey Day to everybody, btw.](http://monkeyday.com/) ---
**Author:** ![Mince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-niggers-will-rise-up-against-the-porch-monkeys/606103/64 "2011-12-15T08:18:13Z")
> [@G-SE](#): > > Iā€™ll be sure to check with you first if I should be offended by a racial slur or not. Dude, ā€œcrackerā€ has no where near the meaning to white people that any number of slurs has to a black person. See: American history, Volumes I through ā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-niggers-will-rise-up-against-the-porch-monkeys/606103/65 "2011-12-15T11:47:36Z")
Oh, I canā€™t believe I forgot to post this [Clerks II scene](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWdVwt2deY4) earlierā€¦ā€œIā€™m taking it back.ā€ ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-niggers-will-rise-up-against-the-porch-monkeys/606103/66 "2011-12-15T13:38:05Z")
> [@Faruiza](#): > > Just once, Iā€™d like to see a title like that that actually MEANS something instead of some fucking ninny getting his rocks off at typing racial slurs in public. What? ā€œPorch monkeyā€? ā€œPorch monkeyā€ isnā€™t racist. My Grandmom called me that all the time because all Iā€™d do is sit on the porch and stare at the neighbors. I think we can reclaim it. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-niggers-will-rise-up-against-the-porch-monkeys/606103/67 "2011-12-15T13:39:55Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Oh, I canā€™t believe I forgot to post this [Clerks II scene](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWdVwt2deY4) earlierā€¦ā€œIā€™m taking it back.ā€ Doggammit!!! (Note to self- Always go to Page 2 to see if someone beat you to it. And get the quote right. ā€˜Take it backā€™, not ā€˜reclaim itā€™.) ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-niggers-will-rise-up-against-the-porch-monkeys/606103/68 "2011-12-15T14:53:57Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Not racially, so its ok to call them hillbillies. If anything, their oppression is by the rich, which are disproportionately white. Rich rednecks, basically Yes, but once they get really rich they prefer to be called ā€œhill_williams_ā€. ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2011, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-niggers-will-rise-up-against-the-porch-monkeys/606103/69 "2011-12-17T04:31:32Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Serious question. WTF is the difference between cracker, redneck and honky in modern use? > > . . . > > On a tangentially related note, how did the term ā€œgrandfatherā€ (as in ā€œwe have a new rule but we will grandfather you inā€), which was an element of Jim Crow voting laws to exclude blacks from voting become so acceptable? > > . . . > > Tipping was 15% during most of my adult life. Why should that percentage go up the way it has over the last few years? Has the cost of a meal not been keeping up with the cost of living? How do you justify the higher percentage? **Topic #1** : Off the top of my head, without research, a cracker used to refer to a white man who lives in a rural, poor area, is uneducated (and proud of it?), has poor hygeine, doesnā€™t wear shoes, takes better care of his dogs than his children, and has too many of both. A redneck is a white man who is lower middle class or below, rural, a manual laborer (usually a farmer), has some education, owns firearms (and probably uses them for subsistence hunting and vermin killing), and is probably a Baptist or other related Protestant. The term is more descriptive of a subtype of culture that tends to be politically and socially conservative, Midwestern, and often viewed as insular. The etymology of the term that Iā€™m familiar with is that, as farmers and manual laborers often worked in the sun with their head bent over something, their necks were sunburned. The UMWA picked up the name and wore the red bandanna as a sign of solidarity with all laborers. Growing up in Texas, people around me often identified themselves as rednecks without negative connotations. They even agreed with the people who used it as a pejorative as to what it meant to be a redneck. They just didnā€™t see those characteristics as a bad thing. Honky is word with little known etymology - not surprising if the word springs from the descendants of enslaved Africans (no one in The Establishment bothered writing down what they were saying - but didnā€™t come into common usage until the mid-20th century. The idea was supposed to that honky was as strong a racial epithet as nigger, but . . . well, your mileage may vary. Iā€™ve always found it to be slightly silly, and if someone repeatedly called me a honky, Iā€™d be more annoyed at the lack of insult variety than the disrespect implied by the word. So, all crackers and rednecks are honkies, and there is some overlap between cracker and redneck population, but the only time Iā€™ve ever witnessed (in person, not on this board) someone get upset over one of these terms is when cracker was used. **Topic 2:** Hmmm, Wiki supports your assertion that the term ā€œgrandfather clauseā€ and its attendant verb ā€œto grandfatherā€ showed up with Jim Crow, but considering how many situations the concept is applicable to - changes in building codes, British peerages, and zoning laws - it probably escaped into common usage almost immediately after it showed up. Some words and phrases have a habit of doing that. They provide a descriptive and fitting name for a concept that needed one and were adopted wholesale. I doubt many people are aware of the history of the phrase. I wasnā€™t, and I consider myself fairly well informed about the twists and turns my native language takes. **Topic 3:** Nobody has to justify anything about their tipping practices. Itā€™s custom, not law. In practice, especially on this board, it leads to conversations far more heated than those concerning racial epithets. Iā€™ll hazard a couple of guesses: - Federally mandated minimum wage, which servers make only a small percentage of, is horrifyingly low. At $7.25/hour, someone working full-time would barely be above the poverty line _if_ they were only supporting themselves. Most people are aware of just how little servers are paid as well as just what hard work, emotionally and physically, being a restaurant server is. So, theyā€™ve increased the percentage they tip to make up for it. - Those of us who grew up with the idea of a standard tip being 15% came to think of it as being the standard tip for _average_ service. If service is better than average, you pay a better than standard tip. - Those of us who can afford to eat out at a restaurant with servers are aware that the economy really, really sucks and isnā€™t getting any better anytime soon. So, weā€™re more generous than we might be if everyone was flush with money. - Everyone out there took my dadā€™s advice that if you always tip well, you will be remembered when you come back, and the servers will take very good care of you. (Which, as far as Iā€™ve experienced, is utterly true. Servers have nearly hijacked my dad when he shows up, and Iā€™ve even seen a seater punish a server she didnā€™t like by not letting them be my server.) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2011, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-niggers-will-rise-up-against-the-porch-monkeys/606103/70 "2011-12-17T05:13:37Z")
> [@phouka](#): > > **Topic #1** : Off the top of my head, without research, a cracker used to refer to a white man who lives in a rural, poor area, is uneducated (and proud of it?), has poor hygeine, doesnā€™t wear shoes, takes better care of his dogs than his children, and has too many of both. > > A redneck is a white man who is lower middle class or below, rural, a manual laborer (usually a farmer), has some education, owns firearms (and probably uses them for subsistence hunting and vermin killing), and is probably a Baptist or other related Protestant. The term is more descriptive of a subtype of culture that tends to be politically and socially conservative, Midwestern, and often viewed as insular. > > The etymology of the term that Iā€™m familiar with is that, as farmers and manual laborers often worked in the sun with their head bent over something, their necks were sunburned. The UMWA picked up the name and wore the red bandanna as a sign of solidarity with all laborers. Growing up in Texas, people around me often identified themselves as rednecks without negative connotations. They even agreed with the people who used it as a pejorative as to what it meant to be a redneck. They just didnā€™t see those characteristics as a bad thing. > > Honky is word with little known etymology - not surprising if the word springs from the descendants of enslaved Africans (no one in The Establishment bothered writing down what they were saying - but didnā€™t come into common usage until the mid-20th century. The idea was supposed to that honky was as strong a racial epithet as nigger, but . . . well, your mileage may vary. Iā€™ve always found it to be slightly silly, and if someone repeatedly called me a honky, Iā€™d be more annoyed at the lack of insult variety than the disrespect implied by the word. > > So, all crackers and rednecks are honkies, and there is some overlap between cracker and redneck population, but the only time Iā€™ve ever witnessed (in person, not on this board) someone get upset over one of these terms is when cracker was used. My experience is that cracker only refers to southerners. You can be a redneck if youā€™re from Montana or Arizona or Maine but you canā€™t be a cracker. You left white trash out of your post. White trash is basically a negative version of a cracker or redneck. A person might call themselves a cracker or a redneck but he wonā€™t call himself white trash. ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2011, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-niggers-will-rise-up-against-the-porch-monkeys/606103/71 "2011-12-17T05:34:42Z")
I thought cracker was more Southern and redneck was more Midwestern, but those are just my own personal connotations. And, oh, yeah, white trash is extremely pejorative. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2011, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-niggers-will-rise-up-against-the-porch-monkeys/606103/72 "2011-12-17T12:14:57Z")
I forgot to mention Townhouse before. I saw them in the store yesterday and I was like ā€œGoddam cracker!ā€ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-niggers-will-rise-up-against-the-porch-monkeys/606103.md?page=3)