# ...And the Whining Commences (MADD and GTA IV) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 1, 2008, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-whining-commences-madd-and-gta-iv/447666 "2008-05-01T20:51:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2008, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-whining-commences-madd-and-gta-iv/447666/21 "2008-05-01T23:05:25Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] Uh… they’re asking for it to get a higher rating. [/QUOTE] Getting an AO is commercial death for a game, blame WalMart and Gamestop… Then again Hot Coffee may have actually increased sales the last time it made a GTA game AO (albeit it was only AO for a brief period of time). Not that I care, I’m still mad this had to be the topper 9.9/10 game of the next 6 years. I don’t like the premise so I’ll have to miss out. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2008, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-whining-commences-madd-and-gta-iv/447666/22 "2008-05-01T23:06:39Z")
Obviously they haven’t played the game at all, and are denouncing it just on the fact that you can get drunk and drive in the game. If you ask me, GTA’s simulation of what it’s like to drive while drunk (hell, just walking around) is enough of a deterrent. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2008, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-whining-commences-madd-and-gta-iv/447666/23 "2008-05-01T23:10:26Z")
[QUOTE=Rysto] Death penalty for DUI? Your link describes a few cases in which people have been charged with murder after killing people while driving drunk. That’s a completely different kettle of fish. [/QUOTE] He didn’t say that anyone had actually _received_ the death penalty, but from the article it appears that at least one prosecutor certainly has tried: > [@](#): > > Well, on April 8, 1997, a jury in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, came back with a first degree murder conviction in a DUI case involving a traffic accident with two deaths. They recommended a sentence of life without the possibility of parole. > > The prosecutor had asked for the death penalty. ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2008, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-whining-commences-madd-and-gta-iv/447666/24 "2008-05-01T23:18:57Z")
[QUOTE=Rysto] Death penalty for DUI? Your link describes a few cases in which people have been charged with murder after killing people while driving drunk. That’s a completely different kettle of fish. [/QUOTE] **Neutron Star** got the gist, nobody thankfully has had the charge stick (yet) but charging people with murder in a DUI/OWI/DWI is also a bit…nuts. Manslaughter is the current charge that one would normally get for causing an accident while impared that resulted in death, but murder implies _premeditation_. The implication is that if you drive with a BAC over the legal limit (as low as .05 in some areas these days) you’re willfully, voluntarily, and purposely attempting to take someones life, which IMHO, is crazy talk. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2008, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-whining-commences-madd-and-gta-iv/447666/25 "2008-05-01T23:41:26Z")
Gee guys, you don’t think that it’s a case of an organization with a cause trying to latch onto someone else’s major publicity do you? Naw, couldn’t be something that cynical. The simpler explanation is that they’re raving lunatics. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveroptic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiveroptic/32/8257_2.png) [@Fiveroptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveroptic)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2008, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-whining-commences-madd-and-gta-iv/447666/26 "2008-05-01T23:42:25Z")
[QUOTE=neutron star] Yup. That’s exactly why [Bus Driver](http://www.gameshark.com/reviews/2958/Bus-Driver-Review.htm) was such a massively popular international hit. [/QUOTE] Haha! That’s awesome! I can’t wait until they come out with “Grocery Store Night Stocker” where the goal is to meet an unreasonable case quota before time runs out. Challenges and pitfalls could include dropping jars of pickles or spaghetti sauce, a jammed pricing gun, and drunk customers at 3AM. Extra points can be awarded by finishing the game with back strain and muscle aches. This game would surely rival the excitement of “Bus Driver.” ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2008, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-whining-commences-madd-and-gta-iv/447666/27 "2008-05-01T23:43:30Z")
[QUOTE=Just Some Guy] Gee guys, you don’t think that it’s a case of an organization with a cause trying to latch onto someone else’s major publicity do you? Naw, couldn’t be something that cynical. The simpler explanation is that they’re raving lunatics. [/QUOTE] I see no reason that it can’t be both. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2008, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-whining-commences-madd-and-gta-iv/447666/28 "2008-05-01T23:44:13Z")
[QUOTE=AudreyK] Won’t someone think of the prostitutes? [/QUOTE] I do recall SWOP (a sex workers advocacy group) protesting at least the first edition. Can you blame them? ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2008, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-whining-commences-madd-and-gta-iv/447666/29 "2008-05-01T23:50:09Z")
[QUOTE=Just Some Guy] Gee guys, you don’t think that it’s a case of an organization with a cause trying to latch onto someone else’s major publicity do you? Naw, couldn’t be something that cynical. The simpler explanation is that they’re raving lunatics. [/QUOTE] Did you read the links? MADD is quite clearly both. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2008, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-whining-commences-madd-and-gta-iv/447666/30 "2008-05-02T00:14:30Z")
[QUOTE=neutron star] Yup. That’s exactly why [Bus Driver](http://www.gameshark.com/reviews/2958/Bus-Driver-Review.htm) was such a massively popular international hit. [/QUOTE] Your bus drivers obey speed limits? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2008, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-whining-commences-madd-and-gta-iv/447666/31 "2008-05-02T00:23:32Z")
Studies have shown that murder is a common gateway crime to a DUI. ---
**Author:** ![Geek\_Mecha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecae2f/32.png) [@Geek\_Mecha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geek_Mecha)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2008, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-whining-commences-madd-and-gta-iv/447666/32 "2008-05-02T00:25:35Z")
[QUOTE=Cat Fight] I do recall SWOP (a sex workers advocacy group) protesting at least the first edition. Can you blame them? [/QUOTE] I always treated GTA hookers with respect. I’d kill their pimps _before_ I killed them and stole their money. Eventually I targeted pimps only. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2008, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-whining-commences-madd-and-gta-iv/447666/33 "2008-05-02T01:05:56Z")
Hello–I represent FAKW. Fathers against killing whores. We have a serious problem with whore killing and it must not be glorified in video games. Do you know how many kids will run out and start killing whores if we allow these games to go uncensored? Hell there are not enough to go around now. More hookers,lower prices. So think before you get too crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2008, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-whining-commences-madd-and-gta-iv/447666/34 "2008-05-02T03:13:46Z")
If I’ve learned anything from this thread, it’s that it’s okay to kill sex workers as long as you don’t steal their money afterwards. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2008, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-whining-commences-madd-and-gta-iv/447666/35 "2008-05-02T03:38:23Z")
I’ve learned that I can add drunk driving to the list, along with consensual sex, of things that are objectively worse than premeditated mass murder. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2008, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-whining-commences-madd-and-gta-iv/447666/36 "2008-05-02T16:22:59Z")
[QUOTE=neutron star] He didn’t say that anyone had actually _received_ the death penalty, but from the article it appears that at least one prosecutor certainly has tried: [/QUOTE] But from **Cluricaun’s** post, it seemed that people were being charged with a death penalty crime solely for driving drunk, while the link indicated they were being charged with a death penalty crime for **killing someone** while driving drunk. Two very different things. Personally, I have zero problem with drunk driving resulting in a death being a murder charge. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2008, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-whining-commences-madd-and-gta-iv/447666/37 "2008-05-02T16:33:12Z")
[QUOTE=neutron star] I’ve learned that I can add drunk driving to the list, along with consensual sex, of things that are objectively worse than premeditated mass murder. [/QUOTE] Well, DUI is DUI: pure evil. But if you’re a guy running down a crowded street with a flamethrower and someone says “hey, watch it!” I mean… what _can_ you do? ---
**Author:** ![Pithy\_Moniker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8dc957/32.png) [@Pithy\_Moniker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pithy_Moniker)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2008, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-whining-commences-madd-and-gta-iv/447666/38 "2008-05-02T17:22:05Z")
[QUOTE=Lightnin’] Obviously they haven’t played the game at all, and are denouncing it just on the fact that you can get drunk and drive in the game. If you ask me, GTA’s simulation of what it’s like to drive while drunk (hell, just walking around) is enough of a deterrent. [/QUOTE] I have to agree with this. I can barely make it to the car when the character is drunk. ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2008, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-whining-commences-madd-and-gta-iv/447666/39 "2008-05-02T18:57:19Z")
[QUOTE=muldoonthief] Personally, I have zero problem with drunk driving resulting in a death being a murder charge. [/QUOTE] Can you explain why you think that an accidental death in a car accident should carry a murder charge on it? ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2008, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-whining-commences-madd-and-gta-iv/447666/40 "2008-05-02T19:10:43Z")
[QUOTE=Cluricaun] Can you explain why you think that an accidental death in a car accident should carry a murder charge on it? [/QUOTE] Because if someone’s driving drunk it wasn’t an accident, or at least it was avoidable. If after all the education, PSA’s, examples in front of you, etc, a person still makes the choice to drive after drinking, they’re showing a willful disregard for the lives of their fellow human beings. If such a person is involved in an accident, then yeah, I’m saying their total disregard (I think the legal term is “depraved indifference”) is murder. Manslaughter is a heat of the moment thing. Choosing to drive drunk isn’t heat of the moment. I’m willing to make exceptions - if a person is stopped a red light, and another car plows into them, but the stopped person was at .08, then no, they shouldn’t be charged with murder. But as far as I’m concerned, driving while drunk is the equivalent of running through a crowded mall swinging swords around, expecting everyone else to stay out of your way. And don’t get me wrong - I think MADD is way off base here, and I’ll be picking up GTA IV this weekend. But MADD was instrumental a few decades ago from taking drunk driving from the “slap on the wrist” offense it used to be to the “your life will take a turn for the worse” offense it is now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-whining-commences-madd-and-gta-iv/447666.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-the-whining-commences-madd-and-gta-iv/447666.md?page=3)