# And then there were eight: Pluto no longer a planet **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 24, 2006, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-then-there-were-eight-pluto-no-longer-a-planet/370036 "2006-08-24T14:05:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2006, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-then-there-were-eight-pluto-no-longer-a-planet/370036/81 "2006-08-26T21:33:48Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] Am I the only one not disappointed by this decision? [/QUOTE] No, yu aren’t. I too was a fervent anti-Plutonian. ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2006, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-then-there-were-eight-pluto-no-longer-a-planet/370036/82 "2006-08-27T02:33:59Z")
Not surprisingly, Disney is having a field day with this. According to their sources, Pluto has no qualms about his namesake being downgraded to a dwarf planet. A group of seven employees also send out this [press release](http://www.animated-news.com/archives/00005402.html) regarding the famous dog: > [@Disney](#): > > Although we think it’s DOPEY that Pluto has been downgraded to a dwarf planet, which has made some people GRUMPY and others just SLEEPY, we are not BASHFUL in saying we would be HAPPY if Disney’s Pluto would join us as an 8th dwarf. We think this is just what the DOC ordered and is nothing to SNEEZE at. ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2006, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-then-there-were-eight-pluto-no-longer-a-planet/370036/83 "2006-09-01T12:53:43Z")
[QUOTE=Nancarrow] _New Horizons_ must feel really gutted about this. Imagine setting out to explore _the last remaining planet not visited by any space probe OMG!!!_, then shortly after you set out, the folks back home say you’re just going to visit a big lump of ice. If I were it, I’d just turn straight around and stomp back home. Or maybe it’s _the first probe to visit the exotic new worlds of the “Kuiper Belt” OMG!!!_ yeah I think that’s better. [/QUOTE] Good Point! Does this mean NASA has to recall the probe? After all, congress appropriated funding to explore a PLANET, not some little dwarf thingie. This is an abuse of taxpayer money-somebody has to pay! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2006, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-then-there-were-eight-pluto-no-longer-a-planet/370036/84 "2006-09-01T13:18:55Z")
Clyde Tombaugh must be rolling in his grave. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2006, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-then-there-were-eight-pluto-no-longer-a-planet/370036/85 "2006-09-01T17:33:43Z")
I, for one, am proud of Pluto. As a planet, it was frankly quite pathetic. Its orbit was screwey, it was smaller than many moons, and its own moon had it locked up tight. Not much to be proud of, there. Now, though, it’s one of the largest known members of its class, and certainly the most famous. Among the Kuiper belt objects, it fits right in, as one of the nobility. > [@](#): > > Also, if Pluto is no different from any other KBO, why did Tombaugh discover it and not one of those other objects? Just dumb luck, or is there a difference there that made it more discoverable? Remember, some of the other KBO’s were only discovered recently, despite the fact that when Pluto was discovered, and in the ensuing 80 some years, plenty of folks were looking for the so-called Planet X. “Dumb luck” is exactly the right term: Smart luck would never have sufficed. A bit of history: Uranus was fairly easily discovered. It wasn’t officially noticed until Herschel, but Galilo showed it in one of his sketches, and under very good conditions, it can even be seen (just barely) with the naked eye. Well, as we observed Uranus, we noticed that its orbit didn’t look quite how we expected. It was almost as though there were some other massive object out there, disturbing its orbit. Well, folks calculated where that massive object ought to be, and pointed their telescopes at it. Lo and behold, a planet, right where predicted! This was the planet Neptune, and it is indeed big enough to account for the peculiarities in Uranus’ orbit. So then, astronomers got to observing Neptune more closely, and it turned out that its orbit wasn’t quite as expected, either. Well, the obvious explanation was yet another planet, so astronomers began scouring the skies around where they expected to find it. Finally, Clyde Tombaugh found a tiny little speck there, moving slowly against the background stars. It seemed awfully faint, for an object big enough to perturb Neptune’s orbit, but that had to be it, right? Except it wasn’t. It eventually turned out that Pluto is in fact as small as it looked, and the discrepancies in Neptune’s orbit were just experimental error. Oops. Meanwhile, on a side note, there was also a discrepancy observed in Mercury’s orbit. This one, they were sure was no mere experimental error. There _had_ to be another planet inside Mercury’s orbit, or the fundamental laws of physics would have to be re-written. This new inner planet was called Vulcan. Except that it turns out that Vulcan doesn’t exist at all, and the fundamental laws of physics were, indeed, re-written. Oops again. ---
**Author:** ![Not\_A\_Tame\_Lion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e36b37/32.png) [@Not\_A\_Tame\_Lion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_A_Tame_Lion)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2006, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-then-there-were-eight-pluto-no-longer-a-planet/370036/86 "2006-09-01T18:32:27Z")
Actually, **Chronos,** you’ve sort of bolstered my point. The errors you mention were based on incomplete or less-refined observations of the objects in question. As the instruments got better, and (significantly, for our purposes) as more focused observations were made, the knowledge was refined and earlier ideas had to be withdrawn. My argument was not that there is something spectacularly special about Pluto; I simply wanted to make the point that not much close inspection has gone on there, and study of the Kuiper Belt and its denizens is a subset of astronomy that is still in its infancy (for obvious practical reasons). I just think one should not make pronouncements until all of the data is in; all of the data is not in on Pluto and other objects of its ilk. Far off observations alone do not comprise complete data. Bits of history back that point up quite well. Remember, Ptolemaic epicycles fit the observed data quite well, too. But that was a function of preconceived notions about the universe, not a reflection of the physical reality. We should all be vigilant against taking the attitude, “Us? Here and now? Yeah, we’ve got it all figured out. Those fools from fifty years ago, they just didn’t know what they were talking about.” Because guess who gets to be “the fools” fifty years from now… ---
**Author:** ![moonstarssun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@moonstarssun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moonstarssun)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2006, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-then-there-were-eight-pluto-no-longer-a-planet/370036/87 "2006-09-02T01:46:48Z")
[QUOTE=Yumblie] It’s not like we discovered Pluto is made of Jello or something. [/QUOTE] Yeah, but that would be kinda cool, wouldn’t it? And it would explain a lot… I remember being taught in elementary school that Pluto was included in the list of planets but that its status was questionable (this was in the late 70s/early 80s). I guess I always knew it could end up being kicked out of the club. ---
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2006, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-then-there-were-eight-pluto-no-longer-a-planet/370036/88 "2006-09-02T01:52:30Z")
[QUOTE=Sage Rat] Well shoot, next thing you know they’ll be making Europe and Asia a single continent. [/QUOTE] That’s a bizarre thought. I mean, what would they call it? Asirope? Eurasia? Hey! The second one does have a ring to it. I wonder… * * * True Blue Jack ---
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2006, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-then-there-were-eight-pluto-no-longer-a-planet/370036/89 "2006-09-02T02:02:46Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Carrot] I’ve always just remembered M.VEM JSUN’P. It’s weird, yes, but it works pretty well for me. And it’s pretty much the same now: M’VEM JSUN. [/QUOTE] That’s easy for you to say! * * * True Blue Jack ---
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2006, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-then-there-were-eight-pluto-no-longer-a-planet/370036/90 "2006-09-02T02:12:57Z")
[QUOTE=mobo85] Not surprisingly, Disney is having a field day with this. According to their sources, Pluto has no qualms about his namesake being downgraded to a dwarf planet. A group of seven employees also send out this [press release](http://www.animated-news.com/archives/00005402.html) regarding the famous dog: [/QUOTE] Has any body noticed that Pluto is now thought of as a… “Minnie” – world?! * * * TBJ ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2006, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-then-there-were-eight-pluto-no-longer-a-planet/370036/91 "2006-09-02T02:36:16Z")
[Quote=Yumblie It’s not like we discovered Pluto is made of Jello or something.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=moonstarssun] Yeah, but that would be kinda cool, wouldn’t it? And it would explain a lot… [/QUOTE] [/QUOTE] Especially if the moon is made of cheese ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2006, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-then-there-were-eight-pluto-no-longer-a-planet/370036/92 "2006-09-02T05:32:23Z")
> [@](#): > > I just think one should not make pronouncements until all of the data is in; all of the data is not in on Pluto and other objects of its ilk. Therefore we shouldn’t have ever pronounced it a planet in the first place, since even less of the data were in at that time. So now we’re just correcting that mistake. Funny how it works both ways, isn’t it? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Azeotrope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/0ea827/32.png) [@Azeotrope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azeotrope)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-then-there-were-eight-pluto-no-longer-a-planet/370036/93 "2006-09-05T00:15:11Z")
[QUOTE=ivylass] Do we blame global warming or Bush for this? 😛 [/QUOTE] [gay marriage](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=385685) of course 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Fern\_Forest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/71c47a/32.png) [@Fern\_Forest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fern_Forest)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-then-there-were-eight-pluto-no-longer-a-planet/370036/94 "2006-09-05T03:26:48Z")
I may have totally screwed the math but here I go. Imagine a point mass. Imagine a molecule of O[sub]2[/sub] 1000 km away from it traveling in the exact opposite direction at 490 m/s.\* The mass required to just prevent that molecule from escaping is 1.80 x 10[sup]21[/sup]Kg. I say weigh that much and your a planet. Unless you’re a star. And maybe that bit about two bodies orbiting about common point outside of both of them but I kinda like it without it. I also have a definition of continent. Working on ocean. Not sure how to approach mountain. - It should the v[sub]rms\*\*[/sub] of room temperature O[sub]2[/sub] \*\* root-mean-square [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-then-there-were-eight-pluto-no-longer-a-planet/370036.md?page=4)