# And there was much rejoicing! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 21, 2001, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-there-was-much-rejoicing/77430 "2001-08-21T22:16:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2001, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-there-was-much-rejoicing/77430/81 "2001-08-26T02:58:46Z")
That would be Ambassador Pamela Harriman. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2001, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-there-was-much-rejoicing/77430/82 "2001-08-26T03:01:53Z")
Okay, good, I’m glad someone else remembers that one. BTW, did anyone else see The Daily Show’s pitch for Jesse Helms’s Biggest Hits? Hysterrrrrical! ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2001, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-there-was-much-rejoicing/77430/83 "2001-08-26T03:29:42Z")
I don’t remember it, but I read about it recently. Ugh, what an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2001, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-there-was-much-rejoicing/77430/84 "2001-08-26T04:49:47Z")
I remeber Bobcat talking about Robert Maplethourp in an interview. He said"First of all, he’s dead and he can piss off Jesse Helms, so he’s a hero in my book"…man I love Bobcat. ---
**Author:** ![ultress](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/7c8e57/32.png) [@ultress](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultress)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2001, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-there-was-much-rejoicing/77430/85 "2001-08-27T11:20:53Z")
Ahhh, **Sofa King** , you are from Virginia. Enough said. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2001, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-there-was-much-rejoicing/77430/86 "2001-08-27T16:27:36Z")
I repeat, I am sickened by the opinion of those of you that feel Helms deserves to die because he holds opinions that differ from yours. I suppose to really satisfy your vengeance, we should kill everyone who voted for him, too? Would that be acceptable? After all, they’re really the ones responsible for giving Helms a forum to express his hateful bile. Your opinions are disgusting and indefensible. From Kimstu: > [@](#): > > I’d like to add that the disapproval expressed about Esprix’s comment was a little puzzling to me, in light of the orgy of torture-and-execution fantasies routinely engaged in by SDMB posters when notorious criminal cases are mentioned. Well, you won’t find a post of that nature from me. What you will find is a number of posts I’m made deploring that exact thing. So climb the fuck down off your indignity. what stuns me, is how many of you who say you are against the death penalty, for crimes of any nature, are willing to wish a man dead. This is reprehensible and duplicitous. ---
**Author:** ![OxyMoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9a140/32.png) [@OxyMoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OxyMoron)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2001, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-there-was-much-rejoicing/77430/87 "2001-08-27T17:05:32Z")
UncleBeer, you seem to be equating wanting someone dead with killing them, when there’s no earthly reason to unless (a) there’s an angry mob carrying pickaxes and one is cheering them on or (b) one has extreme heeby-jeebies about death. I would not join the former (I wouldn’t block their path, either), and I certainly don’t suffer from the latter, which seems to animate so much of our beliefs in not speaking ill of the dead (or nearly so). So let’s clarify: I would not murder the esteemed ex-Senator, but I will enjoy his death tremendously and I will be satisfied if he suffers mightily on the way. In fact, I would even go so far as to say that if he were to choke on his own bile in front of me (a presumably fatal event, given the quantities involved), I would simply walk away. I would not, however, choke him myself. And indeed, that is the essence of my opposition to capital punishment - much as I will enjoy the deaths of some of those who commit heinous crimes, I do not believe that I (or the state, ostensibly in my name) have the right to cause such death myself. In general, death does little to improve one’s personality, although in the Senator’s case an exception would apply. A clear-eyed assessment of evil requires that we acknowledge that some deaths are more tragic than others. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2001, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-there-was-much-rejoicing/77430/88 "2001-08-27T17:10:56Z")
> [@](#): > > I will enjoy his death tremendously and I will be satisfied if he suffers mightily on the way. I’m confusing nothing. This is reprehensible. Period. ---
**Author:** ![Montfort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Montfort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Montfort)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2001, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-there-was-much-rejoicing/77430/89 "2001-08-27T18:51:56Z")
Everybody dies. I want everybody to die. I don’t want anybody in particular to die anytime soon (well, except for the distinguished gentleman from NC, but that’s not the point for this post), and I sure as hell don’t want anyone, including myself, to live forever. I WANT JESSE HELMS TO DIE. I WANT MY MOTHER TO DIE, TOO. (Not anytime soon, of course.) Of course, I’m also anti-capital punishment and would never kill a human being, Senator or no. Some people might find joy in the death of a convicted murder (see, McVeigh, Timothy), others in the death of a reprehensible dinosaur of a racist politician. Understood? ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2001, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-there-was-much-rejoicing/77430/90 "2001-08-27T19:27:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UncleBeer \* > \*\*I repeat, I am sickened by the opinion of those of you that feel Helms deserves to die because he holds opinions that differ from yours. \*\* I could be wrong here, but I think it is more than his opinions, it is also his actions that people are offended at. My impression from what others have said in this thread is that he was at least indirectly responsible for people’s deaths, possibly by denying funds to AIDS research. Can anyone confirm or deny this? You still may not think he deserves to die, but in any case, I think that sentiment comes from more than just his differing opinion. ---
**Author:** ![BoBettie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@BoBettie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoBettie)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2001, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-there-was-much-rejoicing/77430/91 "2001-08-27T20:21:34Z")
For a discussion about wishing death upon someone, I started a GD thread. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=83988](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=83988) I’m interested to hear the debate on this particular issue. See you there! Zette ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2001, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-there-was-much-rejoicing/77430/92 "2001-08-27T21:29:54Z")
**UB:** _Well, you won’t find a post of that nature from me. What you will find is a number of posts I’m made deploring that exact thing. So climb the fuck down off your indignity._ Or better, why don’t you just refrain from taking my “indignity” (don’t you mean “indignation”?) personally? If you’re not in the category of people I’m complaining about, then obviously I’m not complaining about you. _what stuns me, is how many of you who say you are against the death penalty, for crimes of any nature, are willing to wish a man dead._ Well, you’ll note from my first post in this thread that I consider anybody’s wishing anybody dead to be unethical. However, I don’t consider it equivalent to actually killing them, so I don’t think that “death wishing” is really analogous to the death penalty. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-there-was-much-rejoicing/77430/93 "2001-08-28T00:21:06Z")
I’ll reiterate myself - wishing and doing are two different things. I _would_ stop the mob with pickaxes, and I do _not_ want him to suffer - I just would prefer if the man were dead, moreso if he’d died a long time ago, before he’d had the opportunity to turn his vindictiveness and bigotry into law. I see no moral or ethical difficulties with this. We all die; I am simply of the opinion he is overdue. Please, **Unclebeer** , tell us all you’ve never had _any_ passing thoughts, fantasies or desires about ill-will befalling someone you dislike, hate, or were at odds with, and allow us to mock you for lying to us. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-there-was-much-rejoicing/77430/94 "2001-08-28T03:21:00Z")
In apparent contrast to the rest of the posters here, I believe Senator Helms is one of the finest senators of our generation. I cannot guarentee that I am in favor of every position he has taken (nor do I know of all of them) but this would apply to every single other politician as well. Overall, he is pointed in the right direction. He is also a man of tremendous principle (he probably holds the record for being on the losing end of 99 to 1 Senate votes) - in marked contrast to other politicians who are bought and sold. In his personal life he is a man of impeccable character - I believe he adopted a paraplegic child. (The story with Carol Mosely-Braun would seem to call this into question, but I don’t believe this story happened in that form if at all. The story seems to originate with CMB herself - one of the sleaziest senators in recent times. Also, how long of an elevator ride would it take for this story to be true? Were they stuck between floors?). All in all, the Senate is losing a great senator. A shame. Of course, all this may mean that numerous posters will now wish for my death. I shall sleep just fine. ---
**Author:** ![OxyMoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9a140/32.png) [@OxyMoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OxyMoron)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-there-was-much-rejoicing/77430/95 "2001-08-28T05:02:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by IzzyR \* > \*\*I shall sleep just fine. \*\* …with the fishes… 😉 My quintessentially passive form of agression strikes only those I find committing active evil. Isn’t it nice to know that I don’t think you are? I’m sure you were just waiting to hear that! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Phoenix\_Dragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Phoenix\_Dragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phoenix_Dragon)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-there-was-much-rejoicing/77430/96 "2001-08-28T05:19:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by IzzyR \* > **He is also a man of tremendous principle (he probably holds the record for being on the losing end of 99 to 1 Senate votes) - in marked contrast to other politicians who are bought and sold.** Great. We get just one politician with strong principles, and it has to be the bigoted one. Joy. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-there-was-much-rejoicing/77430/97 "2001-08-28T06:06:05Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Phoenix Dragon** _ > > Great. We get just one politician with strong principles, and it has to be the bigoted one. Joy. OK, that’s a keeper. 🙂 **Izzy** , how, exactly, would you qualify Sen. Helms as “one of the greatest senators ever?” Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Heath\_Doolin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Heath\_Doolin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heath_Doolin)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-there-was-much-rejoicing/77430/98 "2001-08-28T06:22:35Z")
Raise a glass Here is to Jesse Helms THE GREAT PIMPLE ON THE ASS THAT IS CONGRESS ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-there-was-much-rejoicing/77430/99 "2001-08-28T10:33:41Z")
Izzy, if Helms is your idea of “principled”, I’d HATE to see what you consider unpricipled. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-there-was-much-rejoicing/77430/100 "2001-08-28T11:43:54Z")
> [@](#): > > Please, Unclebeer, tell us all you’ve never had any passing thoughts, fantasies or desires about ill-will befalling someone you dislike, hate, or were at odds with, and allow us to mock you for lying to us. Ahh, more righteous indignation. No, I can’t tell you that, Esprix; I’m susceptible to human foibles, too. However, the difference is I do not revel in it like you are here; I struggle against what I feel to be inhumane. You, on the other hand, are expressing joy in the death of another human. It’s barbaric. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-there-was-much-rejoicing/77430.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-there-was-much-rejoicing/77430.md?page=6)