# And to Think I can't See it on Mulberry Street -- Six Seuss Books retired for racism **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [March 2, 2021, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113 "2021-03-02T14:09:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/221 "2021-03-04T18:42:01Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > I’m puzzling over what was objectionable with _Green Eggs and Ham_ . Not really remembering it I found a [YouTube video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdotPwVJYzs) where it was read aloud with pix of the book and, unlike the others shown here there were no racial stereotypes that I noticed, just Seusian furry critters. > > What made them pull the trigger on this one? That is wrong, the books that will no longer be published are: “And to Think That I Saw It on Mulberry Street”, “If I Ran the Zoo” “McElligot’s Pool,” “On Beyond Zebra!,” “Scrambled Eggs Super!,” and “The Cat’s Quizzer.” On Edit: Ninjaed! ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/222 "2021-03-04T18:42:24Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > I’m puzzling over what was objectionable with _Green Eggs and Ham_ . Not really remembering it I found a [YouTube video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdotPwVJYzs) where it was read aloud with pix of the book and, unlike the others shown here there were no racial stereotypes that I noticed, just Seusian furry critters. > > What made them pull the trigger on this one? I think that is a big part of the perception problem. People see Dr. Seuss and they think _Cat in the Hat_ and “Green Eggs and Ham” and wonder what the fuss is about. Most probably don’t recall the titles that are actually effected and project the treatment to the non-controversial titles thinking people are _going too far._ ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/223 "2021-03-04T18:44:33Z")
Ah. I’d read that sales on _GHAH_ had spiked following “the ban” and thought it was included in the six. Turns out none of the six are available from any [online retailer](https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/books/2021/03/04/dr-seuss-books-sales-spike-after-some-banned-racist-imagery/6917679002/). ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/224 "2021-03-04T18:48:16Z")
That’s probably from Fox News viewers owning the libs by buying an inoffensive book from a “woke” copyright owner. With any luck, they’ll burn the books and buy more! ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/225 "2021-03-04T18:49:40Z")
So basically the publisher, who _made this decision_ is being rewarded for their decision. Perfect. Who is buying these books could go either way. Conservatives trying to protest the decision and Progressives trying to support the decision could BOTH conceivably be buying other Seuss books. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/226 "2021-03-04T18:50:12Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Seuss was drawing those seriously racist war-era comics Sorry, those war era comics I cant agree are racist. Those guys were horrible war criminals that attacked us, and wanted to end American and democracy. Mussolini, Hitler, Goebbels etc are also shown in a similar nasty caricature . When your foes are out and out evil you _get_ to show them as subhuman even- if you like- since of course the leaders were inhuman at least. The British showed “the Hun” as despicable ape like creatures- racism? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/227 "2021-03-04T18:51:43Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > And since it is determining whether his works are relevant and appropriate for _today_ , that is the applicable standard that is actually important here. We can debate whether or not _those works_ are appropriate today without calling him a racist. **He wasnt. Period. End of story.** If you want to call him a racist, I wont bother debating with you. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/228 "2021-03-04T18:53:26Z")
Memes going around showing Michelle Obama reading Green Eggs and Cat in the Hat to kids, thus that proves they arent racist. 🤨 🙄 But _those books_ havent been canceled. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/229 "2021-03-04T18:59:45Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The British showed “the Hun” as despicable ape like creatures- racism? I don’t think Germans are considered a different race than the English, but it was definitely bigotry. There was certainly anti-German bigotry in the UK, well after the war. The Major in Fawlty Towers, and Basil himself, illustrated that cultural bigotry that was still hanging around in the early 70s. The show was making fun of that bigotry, of course. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/230 "2021-03-04T19:00:56Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > We can debate whether or not _those works_ are appropriate today without calling him a racist. Oh, okay. I have not done so. So I guess that we can continue? Unless you want to make more unsubstantiated accusations as to what I have and have not said. > [@DrDeth](#): > > **He wasnt. Period. End of story.** But that wasn’t the question. The question was whether or not his depiction of other ethnicities was racist. Hint: They absolutely were. Are you going to period end of story that as well? > [@DrDeth](#): > > If you want to call him a racist, I wont bother debating with you. I didn’t, but if you want to insist that I did, then you can go ahead and debate that strawman over there, as it seems to be more to your level. > [@DrDeth](#): > > When your foes are out and out evil you _get_ to show them as subhuman even- if you like- since of course the leaders were inhuman at least. You can… but that would be a racist depiction. It may be “justified” as they are your enemy, but the entire point of that is to dehumanize them to make it easier to hate them. > [@DrDeth](#): > > The British showed “the Hun” as despicable ape like creatures- racism? Errr… yes. That would be very racist indeed. You seem to have this weird definition of racism that, if it was _justifiable_ racism, then it wasn’t racism at all. The only problem with that, is that all racism is justifiable to a racist. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/231 "2021-03-04T19:08:43Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Sorry, those war era comics I cant agree are racist. Those guys were horrible war criminals that attacked us, and wanted to end American and democracy. And his cartoons with racist depictions of American citizens? Were those justified because the people were pending war criminals? [![](https://library.ucsd.edu/dc/object/bb5222708w/_2.jpg) ](https://library.ucsd.edu/dc/object/bb5222708w/_2.jpg) [![](https://library.ucsd.edu/dc/object/bb0171467h/_2.jpg) ](https://library.ucsd.edu/dc/object/bb0171467h/_2.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/232 "2021-03-04T19:11:27Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > But that wasn’t the question. The question was whether or not his depiction of other ethnicities was racist. Hint: They absolutely were. You cant differentiate from something that was not racist at it’s time but is uncomfortable stereotyping today? Dont overuse the word “racist”. Those were not racist when they were done. Seuss was not a racist. Nothing his did was racist _then_, but some is certainly improper _today._ Saying they were _racist_ connotes there were racist even then, and by correlation Seuss was . I dont accept any of those drawing are racist. Improper, cringeworthy stereotypes today- certainly. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/233 "2021-03-04T19:11:39Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > When your foes are out and out evil you _get_ to show them as subhuman even- if you like- since of course the leaders were inhuman at least. If you took even a couple of seconds to think about this statement, you could surely see how troublesome it is. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/234 "2021-03-04T19:24:55Z")
War propaganda is just that- war propaganda. Seuss was doing his part as a patriotic American in the War against Evil, and make no mistake- WW2 was very much a **War vs Evil.** Much is kosher when you are fighting a war vs that sort of evil. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/235 "2021-03-04T19:38:09Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Your paraphrases are consistently completely wrong. > [@MrDibble](#): > > “picaninnies aren’t racist” > [@octopus](#): > > I’ve been quite clear that I don’t think any word or symbol is intrinsically racist. > [@octopus](#): > > a single image is typically not intrinsically racist. Sure, uh-huh. I’ll stand by my paraphrase, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/236 "2021-03-04T19:38:26Z")
I’m sure he has similar cartoons about German Americans that you’re ready to post, right? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/237 "2021-03-04T19:38:28Z")
And the pictures in the post directly above yours are not racist? Really? That’s… I don’t even know. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Saying they were _racist_ connotes there were racist even then, and by correlation Seuss was . And that’s not true, at all. Someone can do something racist without actually being racist. They can be ignorant, or they can believe that dehumanizing a group of people is in the best interests of national security, but their act is still a racist act. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/238 "2021-03-04T19:39:22Z")
Right, it may have been _justifiable_ racism for the time, but it was still extremely racist. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/239 "2021-03-04T19:40:40Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > When your foes are out and out evil you _get_ to show them as subhuman No you don’t. Not and still claim any moral high ground. > [@DrDeth](#): > > The British showed “the Hun” as despicable ape like creatures- racism? Of fucking course it was. Although that was WWI. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/240 "2021-03-04T19:45:01Z")
Did DrDeth notice that the linked cartoons are anti-Japanese-American? These aren’t even cartoons aimed at Japan. They are targeting Californians. And DrDeth calls these people “evil.” I said it earlier in this thread: Anti-Asian racism gets a huge pass in the US. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113.md?page=13)