# And to Think I can't See it on Mulberry Street -- Six Seuss Books retired for racism **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [March 2, 2021, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113 "2021-03-02T14:09:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/321 "2021-03-05T18:47:32Z")
You hear more stories at the local level - School Board tells the librarian to pull a book, that kind of thing. No, the Federal Government hasn’t been banning books, but the Concerned Citizens Brigade has been trying. Less about “sale of a book”; more about public access to the book (i.e. libraries). ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/322 "2021-03-05T18:49:26Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You are welcome to start another thread on this. Unnecessary. You have more than amply illuminated your position. I’m done and will not post again on this here. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/323 "2021-03-05T18:49:48Z")
1984 was far more than just Room 101. C’mon now! ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/324 "2021-03-05T18:51:33Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Eh, I think the people getting offended over THIS decision are idiots, but people’s decisions in general aren’t above criticism just because they have the undisputed legal right to make them. If they were pulling the Lorax because they thought environmentalism was a Communist plot, I would be first in line to call them a barrel of motherfuckers. I’d think that they were stupid, but I still wouldn’t be offended. > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Gail Zappa’s apparent belief that the value of her husband’s unreleased recordings will continue to increase the longer she continues to sit on them is both idiotic and infuriating Sure, idiotic, but still not offensive. The infuriating part is that there is no way to access these recordings, they simply do not exist outside of her control. We don’t even know if they actually still do exist, as they may have degraded over time. That’s not the case with the Seuss books. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/325 "2021-03-05T18:53:14Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > 1984 was far more than just Room 101. C’mon now! That’s very true. I’m trying to remember the place in 1984 where a private company made a decision to stop publishing sometime whose copyright they owned, _or anything even remotely like that._ Is that similar to “three minutes of hate”? Is it basically on par with a clock striking thirteen? Is it every bit as evil as enemies of the state being kidnapped and murdered? C’mon now! ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/326 "2021-03-05T18:56:15Z")
We have always been at war with Whoville ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/327 "2021-03-05T19:14:02Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > > [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > > > You guys are too much. Such concern; much pearl clutching. > > Yeah, it’s pretty impressive how offended some get over an author’s estate deciding what they want to do with their own intellectual property. To be clear, I’m not offended. The estate can do whatever they like, and trying to maintain the reputation of their principal asset seems like an eminently reasonable choice. But I’m sad that they decided to stop publishing “on beyond zebra” (and to a lesser extent, “mulberry street”) rather than deciding to edit them by removing a couple of problematic pages or images. I think either could be cleaned up without damage to the whole. I’m indifferent re the books i don’t know, and wholeheartedly approve of pulling “circus”. I can disagree with a position without being offended by it. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/328 "2021-03-05T20:02:43Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > That’s very true. I’m trying to remember the place in 1984 where a private company made a decision to stop publishing sometime whose copyright they owned, _or anything even remotely like that._ I don’t know about anyone else, but _my_ comparing the potential editing (and refusing to allow resales of used copies) is to the “memory hole”. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/329 "2021-03-05T20:15:54Z")
On the one hand, we have a state that systematically removes all traces of any history that might contradict current propaganda or that in any way embarrasses the government, and that executes anyone who knows about the old documents. On the other hand, we have a publisher of children’s books who might voluntarily stop publishing a book for kids because it’s racist. The images are still on the Internet, and there are plenty of copies around, and plenty of people who are willing to resell them (just not, maybe, eBay), and there’s no effort to suppress knowledge of these pictures from anyone except kindergarteners. These are not the same. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/330 "2021-03-05T20:22:11Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > These are not the same. Enjoy your boiling water, Mr. Frog. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/331 "2021-03-05T21:35:03Z")
Ebay isn’t selling them?! ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/332 "2021-03-05T21:35:35Z")
So much for my plans to make a killing selling my copy of “If I Ran the Circus” ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2021, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/333 "2021-03-06T01:10:04Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Ebay isn’t selling them?! Apparently not. You can buy _The Turner Diaries_ and _Protocols of the Elders of Zion_, but these Seuss books go just too far! ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2021, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/334 "2021-03-06T05:29:24Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Enjoy your boiling water, Mr. Frog. In other words, a slippery slope argument. And not a very convincing one. The existence of these books and their full contents are part of the public historical record. Digital scans of the books exist right now—hence why we had pics of the problematic pages. So even if somehow the books themselves stopped existing, that aspect of history is not going to go away. That’s what I mean when I compare it to the statue situation. None of this can remove history. History isn’t dependent on things. It’s dependent on what has been recorded. In short, there is no increasing source of heat to ever actually kill the mythical frog. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2021, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/335 "2021-03-06T05:34:49Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Enjoy your boiling water, Mr. Frog. That’s the Seuss book that PETA got banned isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2021, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/336 "2021-03-06T05:38:42Z")
Dust specks; not frogs. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2021, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/337 "2021-03-06T05:53:57Z")
You all keep saying slippery slope as if it’s fallacious yet we’ve been tumbling down it. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2021, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/338 "2021-03-06T07:58:35Z")
As we all know, octopuses don’t slide. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/Sv29a0bs_EE/hqdefault.jpg "Wacky Wall Crawlers") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sv29a0bs_EE) ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2021, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/339 "2021-03-06T12:47:56Z")
If a slope is slippery, how could one not tumble down it? 🙄 What I wouldn’t give for a list of all the things that are already at the bottom of the slope. It should cushion my fall. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2021, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/340 "2021-03-06T13:11:48Z")
The owners of the copyrights no longer wish to allow those works to be published for reasons of their own. The Right freaks out, starts whining about cancellation, ignores 300 years of copyright law development, and in protest, start buying the guys other books, thereby further enriching the very people who pissed them off. Good going, guys. That was some pretty smart shit there. All this demonstrates is that the GOP isn’t a serious party concerned with actual governance any more: in a week when the COVID aid package passes with 0 GOP votes, they dedicate their time to cultural whining. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113.md?page=18)