# And to Think I can't See it on Mulberry Street -- Six Seuss Books retired for racism **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [March 2, 2021, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113 "2021-03-02T14:09:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2021, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/381 "2021-03-17T00:20:22Z")
My completely unsupported prediction is that marketing departments everywhere are henceforth going to be on a permanent quest for the holy grail of the “Seuss Cancel”. That is: Find a marketing change you can make to the product that will simultaneously cause the “woke” consumers to perceive the new version as more diverse or equitable, while inspiring the “anti-woke” consumers to ramp up their purchases of something else in your product line as a gesture to standing up for tradition. I think that’s going to be a challenging needle to thread. I don’t know that the original “Seuss Cancel” would have worked so well if there hadn’t been so many consumers somewhat unclear on who exactly was doing the “canceling”, and why. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2021, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/382 "2021-03-17T01:30:59Z")
_Green Eggs and Ham_, which is _not_ one of the six Dr. Seuss books that is going to cease publication, became (again) a major talking point for everybody’s favorite idiot of a senator, Ted Cruz, who is [raising money](https://www.businessinsider.in/politics/world/news/ted-cruz-has-been-selling-signed-copies-of-the-dr-seuss-book-green-eggs-and-ham-and-raised-125000-in-24-hours/articleshow/81483603.cms) by signing copies of that book for a minimum $60 donation to his campaign. Apparently, he’s raised $125,000 in just 24 hours, proving once and for all, to my satisfaction, that a fool and his money are soon parted. ---
**Author:** ![ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chockfullofheadygoodness/32/511_2.png) [@ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2021, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/383 "2021-03-17T06:36:03Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > That is: Find a marketing change you can make to the product that will simultaneously cause the “woke” consumers to perceive the new version as more diverse or equitable, while inspiring the “anti-woke” consumers to ramp up their purchases of something else in your product line as a gesture to standing up for tradition. Nike sort of found it with the Colin Kaepernick endorsement. Get the right wingers to burn stuff they already paid for and get lots of free publicity on the nightly news. Simultaneously get the “woke” crowd to fork out big bucks for their products because they “support Colin” and coincidentally ignore all the bad press concerning their sweatshops paying $1.25 per day for shoes that sell for over $100 a pair and refusing to allow outside inspectors in their factories. “Believe in something” my ass. You know Nike did a shit-ton of focus groups and market research and determined that they’d bring in more money from the pro-Kaepernick crowd than they would lose from the anti. Otherwise the contract would have never happened. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2021, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/384 "2021-03-17T16:30:19Z")
> [@ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](#): > > Nike sort of found it with the Colin Kaepernick endorsement. Get the right wingers to burn stuff they already paid for and get lots of free publicity on the nightly news. Simultaneously get the “woke” crowd to fork out big bucks for their products because they “support Colin” Yeah, it could be argued that the ultimate “Seuss Cancel” (avant la lettre) form of this was [Nike’s notoriously controversial discontinuation of the “Betsy Ross flag” sneaker design](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-betsy-ross-flag-racist/836376/144). Furious conservatives denouncing the decision (while buying up and flaunting all the Betsy Ross flag sneakers they could find) gave Nike millions of dollars of free publicity; liberals were sent a positive message about Nike’s anti-racist “principles”; and avid collectors bid up prices on the sneakers to thousands of dollars, ensuring that they would have lasting “rarity” cachet. Nike’s marketing department earned their bonus that year, for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2021, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/385 "2021-04-01T19:22:54Z")
There’s a hbomberguy video on so called “woke brands.” It basically agrees with what’s been said, that companies have found that the outrage over taking “woke” positions turns out to be good advertising. He does place the beginning with Keurig pulling advertising from Sean Hannity as the starting point, though Nike may have been the first to do it intentionally. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/06yy88tLWlg/maxresdefault.jpg "WOKE BRANDS") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06yy88tLWlg) (sorrry for the semi-zombie - the Discourse suggested topics doesn’t seem to screen by date) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2021, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/386 "2021-04-10T22:27:30Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > Objecting to specific individual caricatures _in Seuss_ is a particularly American form of racism, indicative of the way you view everything through the prism of race. Recognition general racist stereotypes and characterizations of individuals that are racist in a societal context is because Americans are more racist than Australians? I think there’s plenty of anecdotes out there regarding shameless racism in Australia. In America we are working on developing shame. I expect there are plenty of Australians trying to work on that too. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2021, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/387 "2021-04-10T23:27:05Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Recognition general racist stereotypes and characterizations of individuals that are racist in a societal context is because Americans are more racist than Australians? Americans see _everything_ through a prism of race that is distinctly American. Australians don’t see _everything_ through a prism of race, and when looking through a prism of race, don’t use the American prism. Of course, not being familiar with Australia, you have no idea at all about the forms of Australian racism, and being American, you (1) think that American racism is the natural form, and (2) are blind to the national characteristics of American racism. Being a migrant, an expatriate, and an outsider, I am above such limitations on both the Australian and the American side. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2021, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/388 "2021-04-11T02:03:00Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > Australians don’t see _everything_ through a prism of race, and when looking through a prism of race, Because the mainstream society hasn’t yet decided to care about their own racism-steeped society at the same level that Americans have. In other words, Australia is still at a stage that America was in decades ago. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2021, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/389 "2021-04-11T02:14:32Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > Objecting to specific individual caricatures _in Seuss_ is a particularly American form of racism, indicative of the way you view everything through the prism of race. I find that claim dubious. I don’t see Australian works making racist caricatures, either. You mean to tell me that, if you made a comical version of Aboriginal person that clearly used a style to mock how “backwards” you think they are, that there would be no objection? Yes, the US does sometimes forget that sometimes that some associations are cultural, like the fried chicken thing. Not every culture has the same history of using something for racism. But the idea that you shouldn’t use goofy, mocking depictions of people of races you’ve previously discriminated against seems pretty universal. I’d also point out that one of our posters who comments a lot of race is in fact Australian. But he’s not white. That may actually be the difference on whether you see things through a racial lens. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2021, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/390 "2021-04-11T07:34:28Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > Australians don’t see _everything_ through a prism of race …and it [shows](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEtjaZ8ZuNU). > [@BigT](#): > > I don’t see Australian works making racist caricatures, either. As my link shows, they’ve always been perfectly happy to just import racist caricatures. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2021, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/391 "2021-04-11T08:23:30Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I’d also point out that one of our posters who comments a lot of race is in fact Australian. But he’s not white. Who are you thinking of here? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2021, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/392 "2021-04-11T09:57:36Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > As my link shows, they’ve always been perfectly happy to just import racist caricatures. Surely, out of all the intentionally offensive caricatures and fake accents on _Pacific Heat_, at least ragging on New Zealanders had to be a home-grown prejudice? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2021, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/393 "2021-04-11T10:00:48Z")
Oh, sure, I _guess_, I’ve never seen the show. But I wouldn’t call that racist, just chauvinist. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2021, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/394 "2021-04-11T15:53:30Z")
I just learned that “Batman” has a racist history in Australia. Good for them, I guess, that they are replacing offensive names, but it is a shame that it needs to happen. It a better world, _everywhere_ would be named “Batman”. Who doesn’t want to say “I live in the Division of Batman\*”? > **[Melbourne electorate of Batman renamed after Indigenous activist](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/jun/20/melbourne-electorate-of-batman-renamed-after-indigenous-activist)** > > Electoral Commission responds to campaign about John Batman’s alleged massacre of Aboriginal people > **[Division of Batman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_Batman)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > > The Division of Batman was an Australian Electoral Division in the state of Victoria. It took its name from John Batman, one of the founders of the city of Melbourne. The division was created in 1906, replacing the Division of Northern Melbourne, and was abolished in 2019 and replaced by the Division of Cooper. > The division was located in Melbourne's northern suburbs. It covered an area of approximately 66 square kilometres (25 sq mi) from Tho... \*(My full address? 1337 Voltron Road, Ninjatown, Division of Batman.) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2021, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/395 "2021-04-11T16:07:50Z")
Smart move - they were open to a heckuva lawsuit if they’d kept it. > **[Batman sues Batman over Batman](https://www.theregister.com/2008/11/12/batman_city_sues_batman/)** > > 'There is only one Batman in the world' ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2021, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/396 "2021-04-11T17:21:57Z")
My daughter is a youth librarian and is uber-attentive to potential offensive material. When we were discussing Seuss, she commented that the Cat in the Hat has been objected to because the cat resembles a minstrel performer, entertaining the white folk. IMO, that is taking it a tad far (yes, I’ve read the articles.) Bye bye Mickey, Bugs, and who knows what else. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2021, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/397 "2021-04-11T17:29:23Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > ‘There is only one Batman in the world’ Demonstrably not true. Heck, the December 1954 issue of Batman featured a story entitle “The Mystery of the Four Batmen” in which there are four Batmen aboard a ship. The four “Batmen” are a Baseball player, a chiropterologist (a guy who stidies bats), a ceramicist (the clay balls are called “bats”), and a fourth “Batman” The fourth “Batman” turns out to be a weight – the _batman_ – [Batman (unit) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman_(unit)) . This alone shows that the Turkish statement is incorrect – the name is both a city and a unit of weight in Turkey Actually, there’s another “batman” that wasn’t included in the story, since it’s not familiar to Americans, although it is in the UK – the servant of a commissioned officer – [Batman (military) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman_(military)) Although I understand that, at one point, Alfred concedes that he’s “Batman’s batman” The story was written by sf author and frequent DC storysmith Edmond Hamilton, who obviously wasn’t familiar with the UK usage. > **[Batman Vol 1 88](https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Batman_Vol_1_88)** > > "The Mystery of the Four Batmen!": Batman and Robin capture a wanted criminal and they learn of a supposed "Batman", who is going to arrive to Gotham City on a cruise in the near future. In order to learn the truth behind this "Batm You're forcing me... ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2021, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/398 "2021-04-11T17:54:03Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Actually, there’s another “batman” that wasn’t included in the story, since it’s not familiar to Americans, although it is in the UK – > > the servant of a commissioned officer – [Batman (military) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman_(military)) Aah, yes, I remember the racist poem we had to learn in school: > **[Collected Poems](https://books.google.co.za/books?id=myRWZiGI-1kC&pg=PA47&lpg=PA47&dq=cape%2Bcoloured%2Bbatman&source=bl&ots=UiRjNi_Fvb&sig=ACfU3U1r7jPJDr0Isj6uVFxpA084HnsT9w&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiSsb373_bvAhUGYsAKHTujBUwQ6AEwAXoECAEQAw#v=onepage&q=cape%20coloured%20batman&f=false)** > > This volume brings together the poetry wrtten over a period of 60 years by one of South Africa's distinctive poets. It is more than an assembly of individual poems: together the poems tell a South African story of a long journey of creative... ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2021, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/399 "2021-04-11T18:02:21Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Actually, there’s another “batman” that wasn’t included in the story, since it’s not familiar to Americans, although it is in the UK – > > the servant of a commissioned officer – [Batman (military) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman_(military)) > Although I understand that, at one point, Alfred concedes that he’s “Batman’s batman” And in “Gravity’s Rainbow,” Pirate Prentice has a batman named Wayne. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2021, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/400 "2021-04-11T18:15:10Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Aah, yes, I remember the racist poem we had to learn in school: What’s the racist poem? Your link doesn’t say [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113.md?page=21)