# And to Think I can't See it on Mulberry Street -- Six Seuss Books retired for racism **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [March 2, 2021, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113 "2021-03-02T14:09:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/41 "2021-03-02T20:28:38Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I’d far rather, if they’re still in print at all (and I admit I’d never heard of some of these books), that they be published with a new foreword about evolving standards and racism, and with a bibliography at the end of anti-racism books and websites. As a parent of a now-grown Asian child, if I were to have read her a book that included a ridiculous caricature of an Asian, I’d be ashamed and horrified. It’s all well and good to just assume it’s not a big deal as long as there’s a new foreward or a bibliography of less racist books at the end. The audience for the book is preschoolers, not adults looking for historical context. Who is the adult going to be reading the book to, if not small children? The books’ problematic illustrations aren’t appropriate for _any_ kid to see (regardless of a new foreward). > [@Telemark](#): > > The problem is that the books are targeted for small children who won’t appreciate the historical setting. They are impacted by what they see and read, and these images aren’t appropriate. How do you present this to a small child in a way that teaches them why it is wrong? The great merit in those books is greatly tempered by the fact that showing them to children remains problematic. Exactly! ---
**Author:** ![TiberiusNeroClaudius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f04885/32.png) [@TiberiusNeroClaudius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TiberiusNeroClaudius)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/42 "2021-03-02T20:30:57Z")
1984 is here for a certified liberal like Theodore Geisel. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/43 "2021-03-02T20:36:17Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > > > I’d far rather, if they’re still in print at all (and I admit I’d never heard of some of these books), that they be published with a new foreword about evolving standards and racism, and with a bibliography at the end of anti-racism books and websites. > > As a parent of a now-grown Asian child, if I were to have read her a book that included a ridiculous caricature of an Asian, I’d be ashamed and horrified… Whoever said you _have_ to read her that book? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/44 "2021-03-02T20:37:52Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > _Scrambled Eggs Super!_ was a favorite of mine as a kid. I’m having trouble finding info on the specific stuff in it that’s the problem. I found a pdf of it. It’s not as bad as the crazy-ass black stereotypes in _Zoo_, but it does have some figures that appear to be Eskimos (not especially awful to my eyes), and a character named Ali who’s all beturbaned and silk-pantalooned, which is a little “Oh look at the silly Arab!”. To my eyes it’s not as bad as, say, _Aladdin_. Oh, and there’s a bird called a Wog. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/45 "2021-03-02T20:39:56Z")
> [@TiberiusNeroClaudius](#): > > 1984 is here for a certified liberal like Theodore Geisel. This is really concerning. The only news stories I’ve read have talked about a publisher’s decision to stop publishing a few of the stories of a dead man. Would you mind linking the article in which someone is having a cage of hungry rats fastened to their face? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/46 "2021-03-02T20:41:42Z")
Somebody needs to rile up the Republicans to have a big televised protest where they read _The Butter Battle Book_, _Yertle the Turtle_, and _The Sneeches_ in public with absolutely zero sense of irony. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/47 "2021-03-02T20:45:09Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > > [@needscoffee](#): > > > > > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > > > > > I’d far rather, if they’re still in print at all (and I admit I’d never heard of some of these books), that they be published with a new foreword about evolving standards and racism, and with a bibliography at the end of anti-racism books and websites. > > > > As a parent of a now-grown Asian child, if I were to have read her a book that included a ridiculous caricature of an Asian, I’d be ashamed and horrified… > > Whoever said you _have_ to read her that book? So it’s okay to only read it to kids that it won’t personally offend, even if it shows offensive images? I would say not. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/48 "2021-03-02T20:47:39Z")
Yeah, I was trying to look up info on McElligot’s Pool, and the worst thing I can find is the Eskimo fish, who has a ruff around his face. > **[Eskimo Fish](https://seuss.fandom.com/wiki/Eskimo_Fish)** > > A bunch of Fish from McElligot's Pool who live beyond Hudson Bay. I think the issue must be with the word Eskimo. Ah, yep, that’s it: > **[Why You Probably Shouldn't Say 'Eskimo'](https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2016/04/24/475129558/why-you-probably-shouldnt-say-eskimo)** > > There's a new theory about what the term means. But that doesn't change its controversial past. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/49 "2021-03-02T20:51:58Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > We had and might still have 3 of the 6. Hang on to them—I’ll bet they’ll become collector’s items. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/50 "2021-03-02T20:57:57Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > There is a reason my posts contain more than one sentence. Even if you’re going to pull out one sentence to reply to, it would be nice if you’d actually read the rest of it. Oh, I read the part where you suggested changing the art _in a frigging Dr. Sess book_ as if it were in any way remotely equivalent to changing the illustrations in a Dickens story. I was being merciful by not touching on that. _Like_ the cultural baggage or not, the Seuss art is as fundamentally a part of his own work as the text from the very beginning, it isn’t an afterthought tossed in by a different artist ordered by a publisher. (My thought about the illustrations in Dickens was “There are illustrations in Dickens?”) ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/51 "2021-03-02T21:06:28Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > So it’s okay to only read it to kids that it won’t personally offend, even if it shows offensive images? I would say not. So if they put a sticker on the cover saying, “This book was written a long time ago. Some of the images/descriptions may be considered offensive. Please consider whether you find it appropriate to read it to your child.” Somehow or another you are prohibited from being the parent in the room? ---
**Author:** ![TiberiusNeroClaudius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f04885/32.png) [@TiberiusNeroClaudius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TiberiusNeroClaudius)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/52 "2021-03-02T21:19:09Z")
https ://www.unz.com/estriker/video-unarmed-white-woman-executed-in-front-of-children-by-black-police-officer-was-covered-up-by-state-officials/ You also have the New York Times saying Brian Sicknick was beaten on the head with a fire extinguisher while his family says he died on a stroke in the January 6th Reichstag fire event on Capitol Hill. Bu Times columnist Nichola Kristof says it is Fox News that should be criminally prosecuted https ://www.theepochtimes.com/capitol-police-officer-brian-sicknicks-mother-he-wasnt-hit-on-the-head-by-trump-supporter\_3707914.html?utm\_source=news&utm\_medium=email&utm\_campaign=breaking-2021-02-23-2 Of course the thing is Asian Americans have have had higher incomes than any other ethnic group in America for decades. A large part of that is their parents are married. But when people like Daniel Patrick Moynihan and Dan Quayle point out the problems of single parenthood, they are demonized. But, hey, murder rates are up 20-40%in Democratic run cities thanks to Defund the Police and Soros-supported district attorneys because to them :No Lives Matter Whatever happened to liberals who supported Lenny Bruce and thought labeling record records was wacko? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/53 "2021-03-02T21:22:43Z")
The Alaskan Eskimo prefer that term. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/54 "2021-03-02T21:26:58Z")
> [@TiberiusNeroClaudius](#): > > [Video: Unarmed White Woman Executed In Front Of Children By Black Police Officer Was Covered Up By State Officials, by Eric Striker - The Unz Review](https://www.unz.com/estriker/video-unarmed-white-woman-executed-in-front-of-children-by-black-police-officer-was-covered-up-by-state-officials/) > > You also have the New York Times saying Brian Sicknick was beaten on the head with a fire extinguisher while his family says he died on a stroke in the January 6th Reichstag fire event on Capitol Hill. Bu Times columnist Nichola Kristof says it is Fox News that should be criminally prosecuted > > [Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick’s Mother: ‘He Wasn’t Hit on the Head’ on Jan. 6 | The Epoch Times](https://www.theepochtimes.com/capitol-police-officer-brian-sicknicks-mother-he-wasnt-hit-on-the-head-by-trump-supporter_3707914.html?utm_source=news&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=breaking-2021-02-23-2) > > Of course the thing is Asian Americans have have had higher incomes than any other ethnic group in America for decades. A large part of that is their parents are married. But when people like Daniel Patrick Moynihan and Dan Quayle point out the problems of single parenthood, they are demonized. > > But, hey, murder rates are up 20-40%in Democratic run cities thanks to Defund the Police and Soros-supported district attorneys because to them :No Lives Matter > > Whatever happened to liberals who supported Lenny Bruce and thought labeling record records was wacko? Moderating This is completely inappropriate for this forum. I’m suspending you for 24 hours pending review by the forum moderators. No one else need to comment on this post. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/55 "2021-03-02T21:29:51Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > So if they put a sticker on the cover saying, “This book was written a long time ago. Some of the images/descriptions may be considered offensive. Please consider whether you find it appropriate to read it to your child.” > > Somehow or another you are prohibited from being the parent in the room? Again, is it okay to read it to young kids that it won’t _personally_ offend, even if it shows offensive images of other cultures, cultures of kids they’ll be going to preschool with? You’re good with that? As long as there’s a warning sticker? I think some of us are looking back nostalgically at these books because they hold a place in our hearts. But we grew up in different circumstances and different cultures, and things are very different today. There’s no place for racist pictures in picture books anymore, even with a warning sticker. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/56 "2021-03-02T21:37:07Z")
A lot of media, have you listened to music lately?, is problematic. Banning a few, relatively obscure Dr. Seuss books is only going to lead to ridicule and a rise in value in the secondary market for the taboo literature. Instead of a quixotic movement sanitizing the world, what’s wrong with proper parenting and the teaching of age appropriate critical thinking? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/57 "2021-03-02T21:38:37Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > So if they put a sticker on the cover saying, “This book was written a long time ago. Some of the images/descriptions may be considered offensive. Please consider whether you find it appropriate to read it to your child.” You can put that sticker on a copy of Huckleberry Finn. On a Dr. Seuss book it’s not likely to have any meaningful impact to the target audience. The publishers and trustees of the Seuss legacy were the ones who decided not to publish those titles anymore. They said > Ceasing sales of these books is only part of our commitment and our broader plan to ensure Dr. Seuss Enterprises’ catalog represents and supports all communities and families They believe that removing offensive materials that were created at a different time with different sensibilities is the correct course of action. It’s extremely difficult to present insulting images in context when you’re reading to a 4 year old. It’s not like there aren’t plenty of other Dr. Seuss books available. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/58 "2021-03-02T21:39:53Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Banning a few, relatively obscure Dr. Seuss books is only going to lead to ridicule and a rise in value in the secondary market for the taboo literature. Who exactly is “banning” them? This is a decision by the copyright holder on what to do with their private property. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/59 "2021-03-02T21:41:25Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Instead of a quixotic movement sanitizing the world, what’s wrong with proper parenting and the teaching of age appropriate critical thinking? If only we could parent, teach critical thinking, AND stop handing our kids racist books, _all at the same time_! ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/60 "2021-03-02T21:42:07Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Banning a few, relatively obscure Dr. Seuss books is only going to lead to ridicule and a rise in value in the secondary market for the taboo literature. No one has banned any books. And why should anyone care about their value on the secondary market? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113.md?page=4)