# And to Think I can't See it on Mulberry Street -- Six Seuss Books retired for racism **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [March 2, 2021, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113 "2021-03-02T14:09:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/101 "2021-03-03T15:41:05Z")
These books aren’t exactly Seuss’ greatest hits. My WAG is that the revenue they were bringing in wasn’t enough to justify the effort of revamping the art. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/102 "2021-03-03T15:42:52Z")
Yes, it certainly is. 😲 What’s the context of that panel? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/103 "2021-03-03T16:08:08Z")
It’s a group of four panels about [a store where rich people](https://news.artnet.com/market/racist-dr-seuss-drawing-auction-302586) can buy annoyances: a needle in a haystack, a fly in your ointment, a monkey wrench. > [@](#): > > The drawing on offer at Sanders, made when Theodor Seuss Geisel was 25 years old, is from the satirical _Judge_ magazine. It is titled, _Cross-Section of the World’s Most Prosperous Department Store_ , and shows customers shopping for items that will make their lives more, not less, difficult. One panel shows the insect department, where you can “pick out a fly for your ointment.” In the engineering department, you can find “first-class monkey wrenches to throw in your machinery.” > > The bottom panel, the largest, shows two dozen black men, caricatured with jet-black skin and large red lips, being offered for sale. The text in the drawing refers to an expression for an important fact that’s kept secret and may cause harm, and may refer to an escaped slave in hiding. It originated in the US in the mid-19th century, while the Underground Railroad was active. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/104 "2021-03-03T16:40:49Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Disney doesn’t re-release the Donald Duck cartoon “Der Fuhrer’s Face” anymore. Warner Brothers wartime cartoons are among their banned list. It took me _years_ to track down “Der Fuhrer’s Face.” I finally found it in a collection of Disney wartime cartoons. Among other things the collection included [“Victory Through Air Power”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_Through_Air_Power_(film)) and instructional films like how to flush rivet an airplane fuselage. Our [local cartoon show](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wallace_and_Ladmo_Show) host had a reputation for being snarky. Their collection of cartoons included a lot of WB, even the wartime cartoons. In a particularly egregious one Bugs Bunny posed as an ice cream man and gave away hand grenades on Popsicle sticks to an eager crowd of Japanese soldiers. They all run out of frame and there is a series of explosions. One comes back in a burnt, torn uniform with the stick, “Rook! Rook! I win!” – it had a logo imprinted on it. Bugs gives him _two_ grenades on a stick and there’s a bigger explosion before the iris out. On the cut to the live portion the host is shaking his head. “Somebody’s gotta tell Bugs. The war is _over!_” ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/105 "2021-03-03T16:42:01Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Everything in Dr. Seuss is grotesque. Take, for example, this [Russian.](https://seuss.fandom.com/wiki/Russian_Palooski?file=Image-27.jpg) The caricatures of Asian people are exaggerated but I don’t think they are intended to demean, but rather identify where they are from. (I’ll grant that the ones of Africans are a bit much.) Are we really going to have to get into a thing about whether demeaning grotesque racist caricatures have to be intentionally demeaning grotesque racist caricatures? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/106 "2021-03-03T17:00:03Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Are we really going to have to get into a thing about whether demeaning grotesque racist caricatures have to be intentionally demeaning grotesque racist caricatures? Sadly, we’re already past _that_ point. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/107 "2021-03-03T17:16:30Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Are we really going to have to get into a thing about whether demeaning grotesque racist caricatures have to be intentionally demeaning grotesque racist caricatures? I didn’t say that. I certainly don’t think the caricatures should get a pass today, regardless of Seuss’s original intent. I’m just saying that they are consistent with the way he drew other “exotic” ethnic groups. The drawing of the Russian is just as offensive as many of the others. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/108 "2021-03-03T17:33:20Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > _And folks dressed up like Inuits._ > > There - now no one can object to that… The Alaskan Eskimo can. There are also the Yupik and Chukchi. All three are called “Eskimo” and they are just fine with that. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/109 "2021-03-03T17:49:06Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The Alaskan Eskimo can. OK: Chestnuts roasting on an open fire Jack Frost nipping at your balls\* Yuletide carols being sung by a choir And folks dressed up like it’s St Paul … \*that’s the way we used to sing it anyway… ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Sponge](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dark_sponge/32/121_2.png) [@Dark\_Sponge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dark_Sponge)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/110 "2021-03-03T17:54:20Z")
I see stereotyping but not racism in the Suess books. It’s being shown as something different but it is not ridiculing it or portraying it as negative. The Jerry Lewis routine in Breakfast at Tiffiany’s is pretty messed up; I would call that racist as it is very negative. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/111 "2021-03-03T17:56:28Z")
> [@Dark\_Sponge](#): > > I see stereotyping but not racism in the Suess books. It’s being shown as something different but it is not ridiculing it or portraying it as negative. Yes I agree. But some of those stereotypes are cringeworthy. Not racism, but outdated. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/112 "2021-03-03T18:16:18Z")
> [@Dark\_Sponge](#): > > The Jerry Lewis routine in Breakfast at Tiffiany’s is pretty messed up; I would call that racist as it is very negative. [nitpick] Actually, that’s Mickey Rooney. [/nitpick] ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/113 "2021-03-03T18:26:27Z")
George Peppard also did a _terrible_ job of playing a gay man in B@T… ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/114 "2021-03-03T18:28:00Z")
> [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](#): > > [nitpick] Actually, that’s Mickey Rooney. [/nitpick] Mickey Rooney was doing a Jerry Lewis routine? 😮 😁 ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/115 "2021-03-03T18:29:32Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > nd the Chinese also had raised-sole wooden shoes, even if they didn’t call them “geta” Sure. They also don’t _look_ like _geta_, which are what Seuss drew. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/116 "2021-03-03T18:35:03Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Boston is exotic to someone in Europe, just as Japan in exotic to someone in Boston. To call something “exotic” is not to declare Western society the norm. The issue isn’t with using it for a place or some_thing_. The issue is using it for people. And no-one’s using it for Bostonians. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/117 "2021-03-03T18:41:07Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Sorry – I disagree wit this on many counts. That paper is using it in a different sense than the way it is normally used. “Exotic” means “different from here”. If nothing is exotic, then everything is the same. Well, no. North Dakota is different from South Dakota, but neither considers the other as “exotic.” “Exotic” is a lot stronger than “different.” More to the point, just being Chinese isn’t “exotic,” which is a big part of the issue. Included in all the fantastical and impossible sights on Mulberry St. is… just a guy. It’s not “a Chinese acrobat,” or “a member of the Emperor’s Guard,” it’s just, “a Chinese man.” And, sure, it was written in 1937, but it’s not like there weren’t Chinese people in America in 1937. Just being Chinese isn’t “exotic,” and treating it like it is enforces the idea that Asian people are weird and foreign. It’s exactly this concept of “Oriental exoticness” that made it easy, just a few years later, to round up Japanese Americans and put them in camps - because just by being Asian, they were weird, and foreign, and “not us.” ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/118 "2021-03-03T18:49:02Z")
If they’re using it for _people_, I agree. But that article appeared to be objecting to the very idea of “exotic” And, while I agree that there’s a potential to dehumanize if you think of something as “exotic” (because it’s “not like us”), my point is that things do vary from place to place. It’s a fact , and one we wouldn’t want to change. The error is when we think only of ourselves as the fixed point in the universe and everything else is “exotic”. And I maintain that even **Mr Dibble** is guilty of that when he says that no one’s using “exotic” for Bostonians, when he means that _he_ isn’t. To someone in Sri Lanka Boston probably is exotic. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/119 "2021-03-03T19:36:25Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > And I maintain that even **Mr Dibble** is guilty of that when he says that no one’s using “exotic” for Bostonians, when he means that _he_ isn’t. No, I mean _no one_ is. Please, find me a cite for a Sri Lankan calling a Bostonian “exotic”. Not your speculation of how foreigners picture Americans, but an actual example. And remember, I _am_ a foreigner, in Darkest Africa. I in no way view Americans as “exotic” and no-one I know would say that. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/120 "2021-03-03T19:37:33Z")
Fox News has found something to vary their non-stop coverage of Andrew Cuomo. Guess what that might be. [Why Fox News is having a day-long meltdown over Dr. Seuss](https://www.vox.com/2021/3/2/22309176/fox-news-dr-seuss-cancel-culture-fox-news-biden?) > This _Fox & Friends_ segment wasn’t an isolated incident. Before 9 am Tuesday, Dr. Seuss had been mentioned more than 30 times on Fox News and Fox Business. Fox Business host Stuart Varney even touted Dr. Seuss’s alleged cancellation as one of the big stories of the day. > > Dr. Seuss was an even bigger topic on Newsmax — a Trumpier, further right alternative to Fox News — where it was mentioned more than 20 times during the network’s _Wake Up America_ morning show. Man, this ought to send their average age 75 audience screaming into the night. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113.md?page=7)