# And to Think I can't See it on Mulberry Street -- Six Seuss Books retired for racism **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [March 2, 2021, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113 "2021-03-02T14:09:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/121 "2021-03-03T19:44:24Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > These books aren’t exactly Seuss’ greatest hits. My WAG is that the revenue they were bringing in wasn’t enough to justify the effort of revamping the art. I really think this is the truth of it. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/122 "2021-03-03T19:51:43Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Why Fox News is having a day-long meltdown over Dr. Seuss Keep in mind, for a lot of these people, Dr. Seuss was the last book they read. And I’m not necessarily talking about childhood. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/123 "2021-03-03T20:36:59Z")
Happily, the Seuss and Cuomo stories are the biggest stories in America right now, because everything is going so swimmingly! Thanks, Biden! ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/124 "2021-03-03T20:38:01Z")
> [@Dung\_Beetle](#): > > I really think this is the truth of it. Now if they go after Thidwick, the Big-Hearted Moose… (My fave!) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/125 "2021-03-03T20:45:30Z")
> [@P-man](#): > > Librarian here. If I Ran the Zoo is the only book I’ve withdrawn in a 30 year career, and this happened years ago. I discussed the book with a group of 5th and 6th graders as an example of a book that was considered “ok” at the time it was published, but not in the present. Librarian here too, also for 30 years (now retired). However, I spent my entire career in university libraries, where issues like this rarely come up. My only contact with children’s books was occasionally having to catalog them. I respect your decision. I’m still a bit skeptical that there will be mass withdrawals of the six questionable Seuss books. I’ve been browsing news stories about how libraries are reacting to this, and the responses I’ve seen are mostly either “we’re assessing what to do next” or “we are absolutely not removing the books.” ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/126 "2021-03-03T21:15:45Z")
Gonna see my daughter - a youth librarian - tomorrow. Interested in getting her take on this. (But she and I have previously disagreed on deaccession policy!) ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/127 "2021-03-03T21:54:29Z")
(Deleted by moderator) ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/128 "2021-03-03T22:01:55Z")
Darren, come on. We don’t need to see that, it isn’t funny, and it’s not on topic. A warning is not necessary at this time but use your common sense. RickJay Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/129 "2021-03-03T22:30:49Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > George Peppard also did a _terrible_ job of playing a gay man in B@T… Wait? he was gay? I guess his performance was pretty bad… ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/130 "2021-03-03T22:46:56Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Wait? he was gay? He was (implied) in the book. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/131 "2021-03-03T22:57:30Z")
Haven’t read thread (so maybe already mentioned), but hopefully _Little Black, A Pony_ is cool. 🙂 Back in the 70’s, my sister and I utterly destroyed our Dr. Seuss library with the give-me-a-noun-verb-adjective game. Children and adults, alike, might’ve taken issue with our amendments. Publishing probably would have been a non-starter. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/132 "2021-03-03T23:36:36Z")
Looking through **On Beyond Zebra!** on [archive.org](http://archive.org) and the only pages that I see could be offensive are [here](https://archive.org/details/on-beyond-zebra/page/n17/mode/2up) and [here](https://archive.org/details/on-beyond-zebra/page/n21/mode/2up). But neither person is supposed to be representative of any real nationality. Is it because of how they are dressed? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/133 "2021-03-04T00:04:24Z")
Thank goodness some libraries are taking a stand against woke censorship. People can still read the Doctor Seuss books. Eventually the copies on hand will wear out and they will disappear. I hope scanned ebooks will be archived somewhere (for example,The Internet Archive)for the future generations. > **[NY Public Library keeping Dr. Seuss books in circulation](https://nypost.com/2021/03/03/ny-public-library-keeping-dr-seuss-books-in-circulation/)** > > The New York Public Library will keep six controversial Dr. Seuss books on the shelves despite this week’s decision to cease their publication due to racist imagery. The library, which serves… ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/134 "2021-03-04T01:09:58Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Thank goodness some libraries are taking a stand against woke censorship. Please explain how a publisher deciding, on its own, to stop reprinting a nearly 100-year-old book, is “censorship”. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/135 "2021-03-04T01:31:37Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The bottom panel, the largest, shows two dozen black men, caricatured with jet-black skin and large red lips, being offered for sale. The text in the drawing refers to an expression for an important fact that’s kept secret and may cause harm, and may refer to an escaped slave in hiding. It originated in the US in the mid-19th century, while the Underground Railroad was active. I think there was more to it than that. The phrase had its roots in the fear Southern whites had of miscegenation and the possibility that their family trees may not be all that white. It was a crude way of referring to someone who may have had at least one ancestor who was the result of an illicit union between a black slave and a white master. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/136 "2021-03-04T01:34:08Z")
It is unreasonable to expect these books to stay in print forever. I suppose some people might be upset for the censorship angle. I can dig it. But how many copies of _Beyond Zebra_ are sold nowadays? At some sad point all the Doctor Seuss books will be gone. That is only natural. My students like Seuss books and take no offense at _Green eggs and Ham_ and _One Fish, Two FIsh._ I do like the fellow in a turban atop a sortacamel. They seem happy. It makes me smile. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/137 "2021-03-04T01:37:51Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Thank goodness some libraries are taking a stand against woke censorship. Should publishers be forced to publish all books until the end of time, or just the ones that are racially and/or sexually offensive? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/138 "2021-03-04T01:43:44Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > People can still read the Doctor Seuss books. Out of all the books pulled off the shelf by the New York Public Library over the years, why would the removal of these six books upset you? Have you read them? ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/139 "2021-03-04T02:05:47Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@CalMeacham](#): > > > > Boston is exotic to someone in Europe, just as Japan in exotic to someone in Boston. To call something “exotic” is not to declare Western society the norm. > > The issue isn’t with using it for a place or some _thing_ . The issue is using it for people. And no-one’s using it for Bostonians. Can we still use it to describe some dancers? The alternative is worse. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/140 "2021-03-04T02:08:07Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > Can we still use it to describe some dancers? Not if they’re from Boston. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113.md?page=8)