# And to Think I can't See it on Mulberry Street -- Six Seuss Books retired for racism **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [March 2, 2021, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113 "2021-03-02T14:09:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/141 "2021-03-04T02:42:21Z")
> [@NDP](#): > > I think there was more to it than that. The phrase had its roots in the fear Southern whites had of miscegenation and the possibility that their family trees may not be all that white. It was a crude way of referring to someone who may have had at least one ancestor who was the result of an illicit union between a black slave and a white master. I started a thread about this a few years back. > [@Anyone familiar with this racist term?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/): > > UK MP is [suspended](http://www.rawstory.com/2017/07/the-real-nr-in-the-woodpile-conservative-tory-british-mp-caught-using-n-word-while-defending-brexit/) for using the term “nigger in the woodpile.” I live in rural South Carolina and have never once heard the phrase. It is notable enough to [have a Wikipedia entry](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigger_in_the_woodpile), though, and I see from the wiki that the phrase has escaped from a British Lord. before this instance and even [shows up in one of Dr. Seuss’s less commendable artworks](http://www.complex.com/style/2015/05/super-racist-dr-seuss-drawing-heading-to-auction). So does this phrase still have life in some corners of the US and the UK? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/142 "2021-03-04T03:53:18Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Please explain how a publisher deciding, on its own, to stop reprinting a nearly 100-year-old book, is “censorship The spokeswoman for the NY library called it censorship and I agree with them. IMHO The publisher is reacting to today’s woke movement. They’re trying to save Dr Seuss’ other books from the same fate. > [@](#): > > The library, which serves Manhattan, the Bronx, and Staten Island, said it does not censor books and will keep the controversial titles in circulation until they are no longer in suitable shape to lend out, a spokeswoman said. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/143 "2021-03-04T03:59:07Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > **The spokeswoman for the NY library called it censorship** and I agree with them. IMHO The publisher is reacting to today’s woke movement. They’re trying to save Dr Seuss’ other books from the same fate. > > > [@](#): > > > > The library, which serves Manhattan, the Bronx, and Staten Island, said it does not censor books and will keep the controversial titles in circulation until they are no longer in suitable shape to lend out, a spokeswoman said. According to your quote, the library didn’t call _the publisher’s_ action censorship. They said they would not self-censor. Big difference. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/144 "2021-03-04T06:59:47Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > They’re trying to save Dr Seuss’ other books from the same fate. From what fate? The publisher choosing not to publish them? What power is it that you think public libraries have to control how a private publisher uses its intellectual property, and how do you square it with that publisher’s Constitutional freedoms of speech/press? > [@](#): > > IMHO The publisher is reacting to today’s woke movement. In other words, the Invisible Hand of the Free Market is working as intended. Capitalism at its finest. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/145 "2021-03-04T07:48:00Z")
The online woke mob can make life quite rough. The publisher doesn’t want to be the target of that ire. At one time folks defended freedom and art. Even art deemed obscene. [WHY IT`S NECESSARY TO FUND CONTROVERSIAL ART, TOO – Chicago Tribune](https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1990-05-21-9002110327-story.html) How quaint. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/146 "2021-03-04T07:50:17Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > The online woke mob can make life quite rough. The publisher doesn’t want to be the target of that ire. So the market is responding to public demand by withdrawing a product it doesn’t see as worthwhile. How is that different than what should be happening in a free-market society? Should corporations somehow be coerced to produce certain products regardless of what they or the market want? Sounds pretty socialist to me. You’re not a socialist, are you? > [@](#): > > At one time folks defended freedom and art. Even art deemed obscene. This is a market decision. It has nothing to do with “defending art”. You’re acting as if the President of Wokeness demanded that all Dr. Seuss books be gathered in the town square and burned. In this country we reserve that kind of behavior for things like Harry Potter books and Nike merchandise after Colin Kapernick endorsed it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/147 "2021-03-04T07:50:40Z")
Dr. Seuss, the Muppets, Mr. Potatohead…Do the right have any concern about actual people or events? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/148 "2021-03-04T08:07:50Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Mr. Potatohead… At this point, I won’t be surprised if people start molding giant sex toys onto their Potato Heads in order to “own the libs”. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/149 "2021-03-04T08:55:04Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > At one time folks defended freedom and art. Even art deemed obscene. Gotcha. Racism is just a kind of obscenity. It’s just done to shock the norms. Understood. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/150 "2021-03-04T09:06:41Z")
Lynchings are performance art with an unwilling lead. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/151 "2021-03-04T09:11:37Z")
Racial slurs are a sub-set of beat poetry. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/152 "2021-03-04T09:36:49Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > The online woke mob can make life quite rough. The publisher doesn’t want to be the target of that ire. “Since the thing I love to complain about isn’t happening, I’m going to pretend to read the publisher’s mind in order to claim that this was done out of fear that it _was going to_ happen.” Got it. Meanwhile, the publisher was pretty clear why they did what they did, and that wasn’t the reason. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/153 "2021-03-04T14:28:42Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Gotcha. > Racism is just a kind of obscenity. It’s just done to shock the norms. Understood. I said none of the above. > [@Gyrate](#): > > Meanwhile, the publisher was pretty clear why they did what they did, and that wasn’t the reason. Of course. Never mind the sequence of events. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/154 "2021-03-04T15:15:13Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Of course. Never mind the sequence of events. You certainly didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/155 "2021-03-04T15:18:59Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > At one time folks defended freedom and art. Even art deemed obscene. What was the intent of this statement, if you are not equating racism with obscenity? ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/156 "2021-03-04T15:26:05Z")
If there is sufficient demand, other folk can publish them starting in 2161, no? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/157 "2021-03-04T15:26:05Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > In other words, the Invisible Hand of the Free Market is working as intended. Capitalism at its finest. I know, right? We’re not throwing a Fahrenheit 451 party here. This is a foundation representing the Dr. Seuss estate deciding that those books may not be congruent with Dr. Seuss’s legacy and taking them out of publication. They are still out there – many libraries will continue to have them in their holdings; when the copyright expires, anyone will be able to reproduce them. No part of our history is being whitewashed here. It is all still available and will become more available. The foundation has the right to choose which books to publish and which not to, so why is this even an issue? Or would you rather force them to publish these books? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/158 "2021-03-04T15:28:05Z")
The intent should have been obvious. At one point, people and institutions had a bit more spine and defended art. Including controversial art. Now people cower, pander, and appease a movement that will never be satisfied, ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/159 "2021-03-04T15:40:42Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I said none of the above. Which is why it’s not in a quote box. It is, however, what you so very obviously _implied_ by bringing up mere artistic obscenity when the problem here is racism. But back-pedal away, it will be quite entertaining. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113/160 "2021-03-04T15:40:45Z")
Which is why radio stations never beeped songs, television never cut scenes out, and most children’s libraries had a nudity section. No one ever tried to pull funding from the NEA for funding Mapplethorpe’s work. No one ever tried to pull funding for museums that showed Piss Christ. There was never any TV show canceled for making political jokes about the president. No country music act was ever banned from radio stations for criticizing the president. No one was ever blacklisted for suspicion of having communist sympathies. No album was ever pulled from the shelves of major retailers for having naughty words. No movie rating system was ever put in place to restrict or completely disallow minors from seeing movies. No comic book authority ever regulated what was in comic books. Yeah, I remember those days. Good days! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-to-think-i-cant-see-it-on-mulberry-street-six-seuss-books-retired-for-racism/934113.md?page=9)