# And we love you too, Martin Hyde! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 1, 2006, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-we-love-you-too-martin-hyde/346635 "2006-03-01T17:42:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-we-love-you-too-martin-hyde/346635/181 "2006-03-03T02:32:53Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > Clearly not. What I’m saying is that there are areas in which [some of] those on the left attempt to convince the right that it is intolerant and close-minded, and that if they want to have credibility in this argument it is necessary to demonstrate tolerance and open-mindedness themselves. > > And on preview, of course there are moderates, **What Exit?** , but they weren’t the focus of **Nancarrow’s** post, which is what I was addressing. I was responding to your last line of that post: > [@](#): > > Still, it’s often been a source of amazement to me how almost everyone seems to fall so strongly into one or the other of these two camps. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-we-love-you-too-martin-hyde/346635/182 "2006-03-03T02:46:43Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > The whole, “they’re just picking on him because he’s a conservative” is so fucking old. Get a new gimmick. Where on earth are you getting this from? Have you even read the thread? It has nothing to do with **MH’s** conservatism or if he even is a conservative. It has to do with behavior on the part of many posters here that flies in the face of what liberalism has always professed to embrace; i.e., tolerance, pacifism, understanding, concern for the feelings of others. (I find it highly amusing that such outrage as is aimed at **MH** here seems to be totally absent when it comes to the criminal element, for example. Remember how I was excoriated for daring to suggest that murderers be denied creature comforts as an alternative to the death penalty…you know, given that they had deprived someone else of theirs, and all. No, I was roundly criticised around here as an evil, sadistic, would-be torturer who had no concern for people who - even though they might be murderers - were human beings nonetheless. Well, **MH** is a human being nonetheless. Where’s the same concern for his feelings and well-being that you would show to a convicted rapist/murderer? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-we-love-you-too-martin-hyde/346635/183 "2006-03-03T02:51:35Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > Where on earth are you getting this from? Have you even read the thread? It has nothing to do with **MH’s** conservatism or if he even is a conservative. It has to do with behavior on the part of many posters here that flies in the face of what liberalism has always professed to embrace; i.e., tolerance, pacifism, understanding, concern for the feelings of others. (I find it highly amusing that such outrage as is aimed at **MH** here seems to be totally absent when it comes to the criminal element, for example. Remember how I was excoriated for daring to suggest that murderers be denied creature comforts as an alternative to the death penalty…you know, given that they had deprived someone else of theirs, and all. No, I was roundly criticised around here as an evil, sadistic, would-be torturer who had no concern for people who - even though they might be murderers - were human beings nonetheless. Well, **MH** is a human being nonetheless. Where’s the same concern for his feelings and well-being that you would show to a convicted rapist/murderer? Are those people in this thread. I am not sure what you said about the murders and their condition in Prison, but I am all for tougher Prisons with less comforts for murders and people who defraud on a grand scale and rapist and etc. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-we-love-you-too-martin-hyde/346635/184 "2006-03-03T03:04:15Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > Where on earth are you getting this from? Have you even read the thread? It has nothing to do with **MH’s** conservatism or if he even is a conservative. It has to do with behavior on the part of many posters here that flies in the face of what liberalism has always professed to embrace; i.e., tolerance, pacifism, understanding, concern for the feelings of others. (I find it highly amusing that such outrage as is aimed at **MH** here seems to be totally absent when it comes to the criminal element, for example. Since when are liberals always supposed to be nicey-nice? If someone’s an asshole, I’m gonna call him on it. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-we-love-you-too-martin-hyde/346635/185 "2006-03-03T03:07:28Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Look, I agree with you that some of the insults here crossed a line, but why do you insist on turning this (like almost every other thread you post to) into a partisan political issue? Why not just call the posters on what they’ve said? Why bring politics, and your own expectations about what liberals believe and how they ought to act, into it? Well, doesn’t politics lie at the base of this thread…both as the reason for **MH’s** statements regarding the Dope and the resentment of them? Further, political orientation lies at the base of most of the threads I participate in. If you’ll notice, most of the time I don’t post to the “I pit Wal-Mart customer service” types of threads. 😃 > [@Miller](#): > > Incidentally, I’ve never understood why general insults are supposed to be less objectionable than personal insults. If I call someone an asshole, I’ve insulted one person. If I call all Republicans assholes, I’ve insulted millions of people. Surely, insulting millions of people is far more objectionable than insulting one person? I don’t know…I suppose general insults seem more superficial and therefore more diluted than specific insults aimed at specific people for qualities unique to them. > [@Miller](#): > > Also, since when has this board been devoted to taking the moral high ground? 'scuse moi? You’re kidding, right? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-we-love-you-too-martin-hyde/346635/186 "2006-03-03T03:07:40Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > Where on earth are you getting this from? Have you even read the thread? It has nothing to do with **MH’s** conservatism or if he even is a conservative. So, if **Martin Hyde** were a liberal, you’d be making the same posts? When **reeder** was the regular whipping boy of the entire pit community, other liberals included, were you in there standing up for him? Sorry, **SA** , but I don’t buy that for a minute. > [@](#): > > It has to do with behavior on the part of many posters here that flies in the face of what liberalism has always professed to embrace; i.e., tolerance, pacifism, understanding, concern for the feelings of others. We’ve already dispensed with the tolerance nonsense. Pacifism? Liberals aren’t pacifists by any stretch. FDR wasn’t a pacifist. Neither was Clinton. And quite a few liberals (myself included) supported military intervention in Iraq, although we should have known better than to trust Bush to handle it competently. But even if we accept pacifism as a liberal trait, how does what’s happening in this thread run counter to that? Nobody is calling for an invasion of Hydistan, here. Pacifism doesn’t mean “be nice to everyone no matter what.” Understanding? I think we understand **HYde** perfectly well. That’s the source of our revulsion. Concern for the feelings of others? If you say so. Never been huge on my list of priorities, I can tell you that much. > [@](#): > > (I find it highly amusing that such outrage as is aimed at **MH** here seems to be totally absent when it comes to the criminal element, for example. Remember how I was excoriated for daring to suggest that murderers be denied creature comforts as an alternative to the death penalty…you know, given that they had deprived someone else of theirs, and all. No, I was roundly criticised around here as an evil, sadistic, would-be torturer who had no concern for people who - even though they might be murderers - were human beings nonetheless. Well, **MH** is a human being nonetheless. Where’s the same concern for his feelings and well-being that you would show to a convicted rapist/murderer? I missed that thread, so I’ll take your word for how you were treated. I will point out two important respects where the comparison breaks down. First, nothing anyone says in this thread will have any physical effect on **Martin Hyde** , no matter how nasty the comments get. And secondly, **Martin** is free to leave any time he wants. I’ll also echo the comment of a previous poster; is there any overlap between the people who gave you shit in the prison thread, and the people giving **Marting** shit in this thread? Because if there isn’t, well… is it really so hard to blame people for their own actions, and not the actions of people who are vaguely aligned with them politically? I thought you conservatives were supposed to be all about personal responsibility… ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-we-love-you-too-martin-hyde/346635/187 "2006-03-03T03:07:48Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > … This kind of thing is exactly where the right sees “do as I say, not as I do” coming from the left; and this observation is not a mistake and it’s not smoke and mirrors. > > It’s all well and good for you to pick and choose where you want to be tolerant and open-minded and where not, but if you (again, the left in general) want to be taken seriously in your efforts to convince the right of the need to be tolerant, open-minded and pacifistic, you’re going to need to live by that credo across the board and not just when and under whatever circumstances you happen to feel like it. Bull shit and blather. Freedom of speech and tolerance does not ever mean that anyone is required to respect willful stupidity. As for being polite to assholes, this is in the general vein: _If you have a right to respect, that means other people don’t have a right to their own opinions. - Thomas Sowell_ As to Mr Hyde’s “opinions” and “thoughts” - and I use those terms loosely: _A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices. - William James_ If being taken seriously means I personally have to pretend I respect horse shit, then I prefer to play the clown. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-we-love-you-too-martin-hyde/346635/188 "2006-03-03T03:10:05Z")
> [@What Exit?](#): > > Are those people in this thread. I am not sure what you said about the murders and their condition in Prison, but I am all for tougher Prisons with less comforts for murders and people who defraud on a grand scale and rapist and etc. > > Jim But then, as you’ve said: you’re a moderate. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-we-love-you-too-martin-hyde/346635/189 "2006-03-03T03:11:37Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Since when are liberals always supposed to be nicey-nice? I think it started in the early-to-mid-sixties. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-we-love-you-too-martin-hyde/346635/190 "2006-03-03T03:16:44Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > As for being polite to assholes… When did I ever suggest you had to be polite to him? There’s a big difference between calling someone an asshole within the context of general political rough-and-tumble and in saying he deserves to be “hated”, as was advocated by **Merijeek**. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-we-love-you-too-martin-hyde/346635/191 "2006-03-03T03:33:00Z")
> [@](#): > > **Starving Artist** : Where’s the same concern for his feelings and well-being that you would show to a convicted rapist/murderer? If you look at my first and last posts in the recent six page pitting of **Martin Hyde** , you will see that I tried being respectful to him. In fact, look at my other posts and look at his. Which one of us resorted to the usual profane assault? (It doesn’t matter. Profanity doesn’t bother me.) As you know, political affiliation doesn’t bother me one way or the other unless someone is an extremist or a bigot. As a teacher, I _can_ be tolerant of a little slowness and I am aware that I am slowing down myself. Usually I am more patient with someone that I think is a little disturbed emotionally. So often that is just not the fault of the person who is mentally ill. Religious zealots and misogynists are too often victims of their own upbringings. But if there is anything that I cannot tolerate in others it is bold-faced lying. **Martin Hyde** is dishonest and he knows that he is dishonest. Further, he attacks me for knowing. That is just one of many things that make him a jerk. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-we-love-you-too-martin-hyde/346635/192 "2006-03-03T03:51:04Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > When did I ever suggest you had to be polite to him? There’s a big difference between calling someone an asshole within the context of general political rough-and-tumble and in saying he deserves to be “hated”, as was advocated by **Merijeek**. I must have read more into it than you meant. I seem to do that sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-we-love-you-too-martin-hyde/346635/193 "2006-03-03T03:54:27Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > Conservatives are bigots!? > > Now who’s showing their prejudice? > > But be that as it may, I don’t think conservatives want liberals to be tolerant of anything in particular; rather, they want liberals, who stress the need for tolerance, to exhibit it themselves. Why, yes, if you (and conservatives as a whole) support a ban against gay marriage, are anti-affirmative action and the like. Don’t like the label? Try swallowing be called a traitor to your own country, repeatedly by conservatives. Try being accused of hating America because you dare to criticize the current administration. But that’s apparently OK, because the conservative side makes no bones about being intolerant of anyone who doesn’t share their worldview. Your premise is ridiculous. This was NOT a political thread–but again, a conservative has managed to turn it into a “liberals, explain yourselves!” castigation. This is bullshit. I took **martin hyde** as an example of the worst of the conservatives here–you have not only not convinced me otherwise, you have lowered my opinion of the rest of the conservatives here. You take disingenousness to a new level. If I understand you correctly, no liberal is to ever disapprove of any statement made by a conservative. To do so implies an intolerance that, since the Dems “stand” for tolerance, is hypocritical. This is utter nonsense. Show me where the conservatives support equal rights for women, minorities, gays and transgendered. Show me where they care about the poor and (now, thanks to them) struggling middle classes. Show me where they have invested in the future, ie the children thru education and preventative health care. Show me where they have NOT been bigots–show me how they are attempting to woo the African-American vote (hint: they’re not–they’re concentrating on Hispanics–you know, the new blacks). Show me where they, via their party platforms, are not the party of intolerance, divisiveness and party before country (hell, profit before party at that). Show me. I stand by my call. You show me different. This has turned into one weird thread. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-we-love-you-too-martin-hyde/346635/194 "2006-03-03T04:08:48Z")
On second thought–forget this. I tried to do the decent thing and feel not only whooshed somewhat, but also deliberately baited by **Starving Artist**. Enough. I am not about to apologize for the strong feelings and opinions engendered by **Martin Hyde** and his ilk. My mistake was in treating another poster’s concerns with respect and fairness that I would want. Upon rereading these last pages, I doubt that any of that matters. I feel baited and mocked. Have your fun. I have found nothing here to change my already low opinion of conservatives in general. That does not make me intolerant, btw, it makes me frustrated. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-we-love-you-too-martin-hyde/346635/195 "2006-03-03T04:15:50Z")
> [@](#): > > **eleanorigby** : I took martin hyde as an example of the worst of the conservatives here… > [@](#): > > **eleanorigby** : to me, Marty is a perfect example of the conservative sector of the GOP. You can’t have it both ways. Surely we can agree that {b]Martin\*\* is not typical. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-we-love-you-too-martin-hyde/346635/196 "2006-03-03T04:22:06Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > You can’t have it both ways. Surely we can agree that {b]Martin\*\* is not typical. You’re right–the first one should have said the worst of the conservative sector. But, I am not so sure that \*\*Marty \*\* is not typical. I listen to the conservatives in my RL and am appalled by what comes out of their mouths. Now, they are not here, so perhaps I should try to keep the two separate. **MH** sounds very like the RL ones that I know, though, so it just gets reinforced. I have asked **SA** to show me examples of tolerance by the conservative side. I ask that straightfowardly. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-we-love-you-too-martin-hyde/346635/197 "2006-03-03T04:38:04Z")
**Zoe** , again, my comments really aren’t directed toward **MH’s** behavior and whether or not he was acting wrongfully in what he said; rather, they were aimed at the over-the-top, almost gleeful orgy of intentionally trying to wound him as much as possible, and in a deeply personal way, that was going on at the time I came into this thread. And on preview, you’re taking this way too personally, **eleanorigby**. I’m sorry you feel baited and mocked. Such was not my intention. There is a lot of rough give-and-take that goes on around here, and IMO I’ve merely been giving as good as I’ve gotten from you. However, like you I’m getting tired of this thread. Most of the meat has been picked from the bones and what is left really isn’t worth the effort. Regards. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-we-love-you-too-martin-hyde/346635/198 "2006-03-03T04:41:38Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > And **kaylasdad** , I’m disappointed that you didn’t take my post seriously. Every word was sincere. Sorry, bud. I’m not taking much of anything about this thread seriously. It is based on ridicule, after all. And I didn’t intend to give the impression that I doubted the sincerity of your post. But I really did find the earnestness of your little lecture to be a bit sanctimonious. I was flashing back to some of **Liberal** ’s greatest hits. 😉 As for the aside about pushing buttons, well **Merijeek** ’s follow-on response fit your prediction so well, I could but stand and gape at your prescience. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-we-love-you-too-martin-hyde/346635/199 "2006-03-03T04:44:02Z")
Wow I go away for a little and this became the Starving Artist show. SA your schtick got old a long time ago. This is not about politics it is about an asshole. BTW I get a kick out of a conservative asshole like you calling himself Starving Artist. Its kind of ironical… ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-we-love-you-too-martin-hyde/346635/200 "2006-03-03T04:50:59Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > [And on preview, you’re taking this way too personally, **eleanorigby**. I’m sorry you feel baited and mocked. Such was not my intention. There is a lot of rough give-and-take that goes on around here, and IMO I’ve merely been giving as good as I’ve gotten from you. > > However, like you I’m getting tired of this thread. Most of the meat has been picked from the bones and what is left really isn’t worth the effort. > > Regards. Whose bones? What meat? gah. tcha. I happen to believe in my values quite strongly. Didn’t realize it was all a game to you et al till too late. As our illutstrious President tried to say once, “fool me once–well, I can’t be fooled a second time” or something like that. It’s hard to paraphrase a complete moron. **Martin Hyde** remains a jerk and my view of conservatives remains dim. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-we-love-you-too-martin-hyde/346635.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-we-love-you-too-martin-hyde/346635.md?page=11)